Safe Speed Forums

Curiously I am puzzled as to why there is so little about the brain tumour? Brain issues can easily 'cause' many visual disturbances yet there seems little about it in this article !?

As with the A19 death from texting, is is the most sever failure to drive properly when you kill someone and to do so from 'voluntary' distraction is just repulsive.
Maybe he ought to not have been driving if a brain tumour operation was due soon ? Still I am no doctor nor aware of any of the facts which makes it difficult to meaningfully discuss.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

I guess it's fair enough, provided there was satisfactory evidence that the texting was the cause of him drifting across the road. I agree it PROBABLY was, but I think there's a real danger of making that assumption automatically. I think there's a difference between causing an accident BECAUSE you were using the phone (or drunk, or whatever) and causing an accident by some other mechanism AND using a phone, being drunk / whatever.

On these fora, we're generally very quick to leap on the automatic assumption that a speeding driver caused an accident BECAUSE they were speeding (and quite rightly too, in my view), but I also feel that we (I say "we", I mean the courts!) need to apply the same rigour to other situations too.

I agree there is a difference Mole but, unless I misunderstand what you’re saying, I can’t agree. So if the driver is getting a BJ but it’s not the cause of him crashing, the fact that he was getting a BJ doesn’t matter or it’s somehow okay? (I know that’s not what your saying but it’s not a great leap is it?).

The bottom line for me, when I’m driving, is the driving itself and it’s that which I should be concentrating on. To turn it around the other way, you wouldn’t start reading a text during sex would you? No, of course not. I’ll look at the text after I’ve finished; in about four hours...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Four hours!! Gee whizz, Tone, you make me feel old.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

If it makes you feel better Dave, I don’t get the opportunity anymore

It’s often the case that you aren’t going to know the result of your actions, but you are still nonetheless responsible

An obvious example of this is where someone gets into a fight. It may have been ‘just a punch’ which may have resulted in assault, ABH, GBH or a big nothing. But if something unexpected happens, like the man trips or falls to the ground as a result of your punch and bangs his head on the curb resulting in his death it takes on a completely different meaning - and punishment of course.

We can talk about the rights or wrongs of the big sentence he would inevitably get and mitigating circumstances, but the fact remains if he hadn’t punched the man in the first place there would be no case to answer; just like if the driver wasn’t distracted with his phone in this case.

You may not have wished to kill or hurt someone, as I’m sure he didn’t, but the outcome is what it is. The driver may not have any intention of veering off course or taking his eyes off the road but that doesn’t absolve him of the responsible way in which he should have been driving and taking the serious matter of driving seriously.

That’s why I feel so passionate about any distractions which are unnecessary. I mean really, seriously, how would you feel if a family member of yours was killed because someone like him doing what he was? I know I’d be gunning for his blood!

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

You've got it all wrong..... you lose your speed as you get older, then it's all about endurance.

Maybe....and perhaps experience and skill, carefully tailored to best suit your companion of the moment....

I think I'd better leave this now: we could get into real trouble here.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Quite agree Tone- but four hours, I think i must meet you ,if only to find your suplier . (She'd be eternally gratfull, if a mod don't ban me for going O/T in this way - pink /blue or are mods getting red ).
Back on topic - if I get a terxt whilst driving,I do either of three things.And it's down to hazard perception and risk assesment.
Alone - it can wait for a safer place.
If dog in car - I'm responsible for her safety.I would never forgive myself if she got hurt because of my mistake. Judy spent ten years trying to persuade me that I could had prevented being run into (and my loverly pet end up with cancer) ,if I'd shot up a slip road when seeing a mash up on the M6.Message takes second/third place .
With mrs B(= Judy) in car - I hand her my phone and talk her through how to access message). If important we react.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Yeah, we've had this one before, I think. We're not worlds apart - in that I obviously don't think using a hand-held mobile (never mind texting!) whilst driving is a good thing! Where we differ, I think, is that I'm not in favour of an "automatic" assumption that it's the case - i.e. that the driver using the phone is automatically to blame. Don't get me wrong, most of the time they probably will be and will deserve the book getting thrown at them, but for me, the automatic assumption of anything is the start of a slippery slope when it comes to really getting to the bottom of things and improving road safety. It's a bit like the automatic assumption that the driver who was exceeding the speed limit was at fault. He may or may not have been. The problem (for me) is that if you make that assumption too often, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. There's a public perception (which, I say again, is generally correct!) that using a mobile whilst driving is dangerous. Then you get a few headline cases where it indeed seems to have been the case, and then before you know it, the whole thing is taken as read and nobody looks any further. When that happens, every subsequent accident involving a mobile doesn't get investigated any further, so before you know it, EVERY accident where one of the parties was using a hand-held becomes the phone user's fault - which, in turn feeds the assumption that they're dangerous - and so the vicious circle continues.



Probably worth going to prison for though...

One a more serious note though, there are adequate laws in place to prosecute someone who caused an accident whilst being thus "distracted". Why do you suppose using a hand-help mobile is a specific offence and getting a you-know-what isn't?



And here, is where we must diverge - else I wouldn't have a radio in my car! For me, (and I think most people, to be honest) using 100% of one's attention to do anything (including driving) is exhausting. A couple of hours maybe? For me, it's about using "enough" attention to do the job safely.

I'm glad you said that, as I completely agree with you. People do quite often insist that driving requires 100% attention at all times, and it doesn't, which is fortunate, because it isn't possible.

In any case the work load entailed in driving can vary enormously. For example, suppose we're driving at a moderate speed on the open road, where the road is free from sharp bends, and there's no other traffic around, and very few hazards to bother about. If that situation requires 100% concentration and attention, what would happen if we were to drive on a busy motorway, travelling at a higher speed, and perhaps in wet conditions? If we truly were fully occupied with the easy stuff, we'd find ourselves unable to cope with the more demanding task: it would be immediate overload.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

For me it's asking yourself what is the primary task which you are performing.

If you are driving don't speak on the phone or text. If your primary task is speaking to someone then stop and make the call.

I agree that some amount of your attention can be expended on other things but listening to a radio program or CD is a passive activity requiring no intervention by you (other than switch on).

However, I also agree that automatic apportionment of liability is wrong and that each case must be judged on the evidence.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Discuss....

I won't be drawn ed, but nice try

I agree with you Mole and Malcolm, I was really just repeating advice given to me in my formative driving years that one should devote 100% to driving.

You're right and I seem to recall something from my apprenticeship years that you can only concentrate, in class, for up to 20 minutes??? It was something like that but I strongly suspect it depends on the subject matter and personal interest.

When I go on the fire awareness or manual handling course every year, as I do, I think its nearer 1 minute...

And now, we must all demonstrate how to pick up an empty bucket or use an Evac chair thingy.....


Argghhhh!!!!!!!!

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

That's what & where I'm coming from!!!!!!!!

I'm very depressed over this point because I think I'm misunderstood, and feel/felt like I'm at odds with....

But you have made my day Malcolm

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

CERTAINLY not worth getting depressed over Tone! Your opinions are as good as anyone else's on here.

I think a very focused, physically and mentally fit person might be able to give an hour, hour-and-a-half of 100% concentration to driving (I'm thinking of F1 guys here). As a mere mortal, I've driven about 400 miles today, and I can say with absolute certainty that I did NOT devote 100% concentration to it all the time, but (thankfully) "enough".

As a teenager, I remember reading something by a motoring journalist (it was before I could drive) and one line stuck in my mind - something along the lines of: "...I turned up the radio to concentrate my attention...". I thought it must have been a misprint and he'd meant turned DOWN (or off) but the context of the rest of it suggested otherwise. Many years later, having driven quite a lot since, I'm now wondering whether he was describing an effect that I've noticed more than once. After a while with nothing to do except driving, my mind starts to wander. Putting the radio on seems to occupy enough of its "spare capacity" to make the rest of it concentrate harder on driving. It sounds completely counter-intuitive, I know, and might be utter cobblers, but I've noticed the effect more than once...

Yes, I know what you mean Mole. I remember I used to go down to visit my friend in Devon every year and I always left early from Brum to miss the traffic. So I’d set off at 4ish aiming to get there at around 7:00 to 7:30 a.m. The once though, I was well tired and some way past Bristol it was really starting to get to me. After opening the window a bit to help, something came on the radio which worked better once I pumped up the volume. Don’t know if you know it but they played Born Slippy. I was quite awake after that I can say and didn’t need to take the next motorway stop. It’s the one that goes on about “lager lager” and if you’ve never played it full blast on a good system you won’t know what I mean.

I think it’s about the type of tasks you’re performing as much as anything. I would have no problem or objection to someone in the kitchen talking on the mob, making toast and boiling the kettle or picking up a fag. These low-level low-risk tasks are one thing but driving is a different animal and I think it’s wholly inappropriate, and sometimes dangerous, to multitask while driving. Hence my view on keeping it to an absolute minimum.

The only exception I can think of, which I hold my hand up to, is calling in work to say I’m going to be late back because I’m stuck on the motorway. In my defence, I don’t class it as driving if you are completely stationary with the engine turned off, although I’m sure P.C. Jobsworth would disagree...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

In principal I totally agree that if you are driving or riding that is the absolute prime task and everything else takes a 'back seat'. However the reality is that when safe we choose to do a few other things like talk to passenger/s or adjust the stereo or temperature or many other little things.
The problem comes when those 'little things' start to become a habit and start to become a distraction from where we ought to be paying attention. In other words the balance has started to go wrong. Carry on and it won't be long before and accident is inevitable.
I think everyone will risk manage these little tasks to their own ability ... and we need to be extremely aware all the time as to how they are effecting our prime focus on driving and thinking about driving (riding and thinking about riding ...).
To me taking a break from driving every 20 minutes is mad and silly but to someone else it maybe just right !
The important point is that there are precious little reminders that we must be always trying to think about driving as much as possible and everything else no matter what takes secondary consideration if it's worthy of consideration at all.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

I'd agree ,Claire . After 45 years on the road , I learn where the heater /radio controls live. How soon do we let lizard brain tell us where wiper controls/indicators are . I can't multitask like Mrs B in the kitchen , but I've had her in the front( driving -Tone ),and she has had problems finding things (no not those -we've been married too long).But whilst we need multitask behind the wheel , our main task is to be safe and lookc out for the safety of others .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

And yet, is there any evidence to suggest that people who drive unfamiliar cars (pool cars, hire cars, or just having bought a new car) are any more likely to crash them?

I think so. Stories of drivers going through dealers' windows on test drives, the high insurance cost of a rental car etc. all point to unfamiliarity being risky.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.