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 Post subject: I wonder why??
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 08:31 
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http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/uk-n ... -revealed/

Maybe if road safety was focussed on driving to the conditions and varying your speed accordingly, instead of "stick to the lollipop number and you can't go wrong"...just a thought...

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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 Post subject: Re: I wonder why??
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 08:57 
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graball wrote:
http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/uk-news/2013/06/03/dangers-of-rural-roads-revealed/

Maybe if road safety was focussed on driving to the conditions and varying your speed accordingly, instead of "stick to the lollipop number and you can't go wrong"...just a thought...


The highway code (Which all drivers study) reads:

Highway Code wrote:
124
You MUST NOT exceed the maximum speed limits for the road and for your vehicle (see the table below). The presence of street lights generally means that there is a 30 mph (48 km/h) speed limit unless otherwise specified.
Law RTRA sects 81, 86, 89 & sch 6

125
The speed limit is the absolute maximum and does not mean it is safe to drive at that speed irrespective of conditions. Driving at speeds too fast for the road and traffic conditions is dangerous. You should always reduce your speed when

the road layout or condition presents hazards, such as bends
sharing the road with pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders, particularly children, and motorcyclists
weather conditions make it safer to do so
driving at night as it is more difficult to see other road users.


So I can't see how people would read into this that driving the limit is always safe myself.

Maybe these people think they are driving at a safe speed?


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 Post subject: Re: I wonder why??
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 09:51 
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such rubbish reporting in so many ways :lol:

Quote:
And a survey shows that more than two in five 17 to 24-year-olds are more likely to drive faster on rural roads.


faster than what ??.. the other 3 in 5 17 to 24 year olds ??

Quote:
It showed that 41% were more likely to drive faster on rural roads, with many admitting going at a greater rate as the roads were quieter.


but then more often than not you would... wouldn't you ?


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 Post subject: Re: I wonder why??
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:06 
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I have to agree that's the most vacuous article I've read in a while (and the journalistic bar on these things isn't set particularly high)! I can't see anywhere that it says they're exceeding the speed limit either? Most people go faster on country roads than in cities because, well, they're not subject to a 30 limit! they may as well have written an article saying that "x"% of drivers admit to going faster on motorways than in cities!

Weepy, we're all aware that we're allowed to drive at less than speed limit. Indeed, a closely held precept of most people on here is that you need to select your speed based on a multitude of factors - which can be changing rapidly as you go. The question is. Why do you think the ability to do this deserts us as soon as the selected speed becomes greater than the speed limit?


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 Post subject: Re: I wonder why??
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:16 
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Mole wrote:
The question is. Why do you think the ability to do this deserts us as soon as the selected speed becomes greater than the speed limit?


The question is why are you ascribing that thought to me?

I don't think that, why would you write a post as if that is categorically what I believe?


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 Post subject: Re: I wonder why??
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 13:19 
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The point is weepy, that although the highway code says drive within the speed limit AND your own limits, the "road safety" "experts" (using that word very loosely) seem to believe that if there is a problem, reducing the speed limit is the only answer (usually to a point that matches the lowest common denominator point of a given stretch of road, i.e if there's a bend on the road, that people keep leaving the road on at 45MPH, the entire road should be 40MPH)....mmmm.

Also roads are so dumbed down to the point that every motorist with a licence can drive that road in a totally hypnotic state without crashing, when the conditions are clear and dry, that they often feel that the same hypnotic state will get them through at the same speed in fog, torrential rain or ice.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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 Post subject: Re: I wonder why??
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 13:21 
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Weepej, any chance of answering the long lost question of proving that rural roads are safer at 50MPH than 60mph?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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 Post subject: Re: I wonder why??
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 14:23 
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weepej wrote:
Mole wrote:
The question is. Why do you think the ability to do this deserts us as soon as the selected speed becomes greater than the speed limit?


The question is why are you ascribing that thought to me?

I don't think that, why would you write a post as if that is categorically what I believe?


Forgive me, but I thought you were a keen supporter of speed limits and the rigorous enforcement thereof! Have I misunderstood you all these years? I take it that you'd have no objection to a speed limit being exceeded by someone who has selected a speed appropriate to the conditions then?


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 Post subject: Re: I wonder why??
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 02:46 
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Located a few really interested and related links to this topic :
http://www.tyrepress.com/News/1/22/23673.html (Oct 2011)
... interesting that 70% of accidents happened in the dry and that corner accidents are the 'worst'.

http://www.roadsafetyfoundation.org/med ... _fdn34.pdf (2004)
http://www.etyres.co.uk/winter-tyres (Tyre info)

http://www.bognor.co.uk/news/regional/d ... -1-5150352 (same story with 'a bit more')

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 Post subject: Re: I wonder why??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 13:11 
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Mole wrote:
Forgive me, but I thought you were a keen supporter of speed limits and the rigorous enforcement thereof! Have I misunderstood you all these years? I take it that you'd have no objection to a speed limit being exceeded by someone who has selected a speed appropriate to the conditions then?


I believe speed limits are a necessary part of road safety, so do you, so does the SafeSpeed campaign.

Why are you attributing these words to me though?

Mole wrote:
Why do you think the ability to do this deserts us as soon as the selected speed becomes greater than the speed limit?


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 Post subject: Re: I wonder why??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 14:43 
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Now who's attributing words to who?!

Yes, I think speed limits have a role to play, but not (unless I'm on the brink of a great and illuminating discovery?!) in the same way as you do! I think they're a handy indicator of likely hazard density (or at least, they used to be before they started to fluctuate so widely on very similar stretches of road) and I think they're a useful fall-back that allows a quick and easy means of prosecution, should the miscreant be driving in such a way as to cause danger but not in such a way that would otherwise be easy to prosecute.

In other words, if someone is doing 80 along a clear, dry, lightly trafficked motorway, I wouldn't expect a prosecution to take place. IF someone's tailgating at the same speed, or the road conditions are in some other way less favourable, I WOULD expect one - even though it wasn't the absolute speed that was the problem. Similarly, if someone was doing 35 past a school at midnight, I wouldn't expect a prosecution for speeding, and if someone was doing the same speed at 3.30 on a sunny Friday in term time, with an ice cream van parked opposite the school, I would.

HOWEVER, I do NOT believe that they are necessarily an indication that once exceeded, things automatically become dangerous.

Now then, as you're coming over all coy, I suppose I now need to ask:

Do you, or do you not, believe that "...the ability to do this deserts us as soon as the selected speed becomes greater than the speed limit"?


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 Post subject: Re: I wonder why??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 14:59 
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Mole wrote:
Do you, or do you not, believe that "...the ability to do this deserts us as soon as the selected speed becomes greater than the speed limit"?


No and I never did, why would you ascribe that to me?

Is this some logical fallacy you apply to those that support speed limits so you can marginalise them as illogical freaks?

No, I'm sure you don't need my help to do that Weepy!

The thing is, to accept that the ability to select a safe speed for the conditions DOES remain with us once the speed limit is reached, yet is still in favour of adhering to speed limits AND, indeed, the reduction of speed limits in many cases, is probably even less logical than someone who DOESN'T accept it and is in favour of adhering to speed limits and the rigid enforcement thereof!

Anyway, I apologise for falsely ascribing this belief to you. I must say that I had assumed it (given your well-known stance on exceeding the speed limit) but it does rather leave me a bit puzzled as to why you should now hold that position?! Would I now be right in thinking that that you accept it is NOT necessarily dangerous to exceed the speed limit (depending on the conditions) and that rigid, automated enforcement of that limit is largely a waste of time?


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 Post subject: Re: I wonder why??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 22:10 
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graball wrote:
Weepej, any chance of answering the long lost question of proving that rural roads are safer at 50MPH than 60mph?

Always the eternal optimust is our grabs, hoping that some day he'll get an answer to this . :shock: Someone( I think it's a lot of someones)on here has posted a lot of questions FOR weepy to answer . I believe they still wait. As in the title of this post "I WONDER WHY". I've had a lot of answers ,accusing me of all sorts, but like pigs,( flying type), there's a lot of fat and hot air, but little substance .

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 Post subject: Re: I wonder why??
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:57 
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Mole wrote:
HOWEVER, I do NOT believe that they are necessarily an indication that once exceeded, things automatically become dangerous.



Is anybody suggesting this other than you?


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 Post subject: Re: I wonder why??
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 16:50 
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Well I must say Weepy, I've never been so pleased to be wrong! So, to recap, we both believe that speed limits have a place in road safety, we both agree that the ability to select an appropriate speed based on the conditions doesn't leave us at the point the speed limit is exceeded, AND we both agree that it's not necessarily dangerous to exceed the speed limit! This IS good news...

...in fact, I'm rather left wondering what we've been arguing over for all these years... :scratchchin:


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 Post subject: Re: I wonder why??
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 17:30 
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Mole wrote:
Well I must say Weepy, I've never been so pleased to be wrong! So, to recap, we both believe that speed limits have a place in road safety, we both agree that the ability to select an appropriate speed based on the conditions doesn't leave us at the point the speed limit is exceeded, AND we both agree that it's not necessarily dangerous to exceed the speed limit! This IS good news...

...in fact, I'm rather left wondering what we've been arguing over for all these years... :scratchchin:


That I think people should be prosecuted for breaking the limit and I have no problem with that prosecution being automated.

As things get faster, things get more dangerous (in the same given situation), so I believe limits are necessary and should be strictly enforced to stop things getting out of hand.


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 Post subject: Re: I wonder why??
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 18:45 
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Quote:
As things get faster, things get more dangerous (in the same given situation),..............


Not proven by you...yet...and in fact slower than the 85percentile speed things could actually be MORE dangerous.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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 Post subject: Re: I wonder why??
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 19:05 
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graball wrote:
Quote:
As things get faster, things get more dangerous (in the same given situation),..............


Not proven by you...yet...and in fact slower than the 85percentile speed things could actually be MORE dangerous.


Really, you sure that's just not the faster people crashing into the slower ones?


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 Post subject: Re: I wonder why??
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 20:20 
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Regardless of whether the faster or slower driver is at fault, it's good to see that you appreciate that going too slow can also be dangerous...we are getting there at last :lol:

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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 Post subject: Re: I wonder why??
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 03:09 
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Perhaps a curious thought ... that I put to you ... you do realise that even ACPO recognise that they need to allow 10%+2 and more recently 10% +3 mph above the given speed limit, before prosecution (generally)... don't you? Why do you think that is ?

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