Safe Speed Forums

Well, weepej's been on my foes list for years, but this time I totally agree with him!
Anyone who uses a phone, whether hands-free or not, whilst they are driving is an IDIOT! They must have an extremely high opinion of their capabilities, when tests have proved that it's worse than drink-driving.

But then, drink-drivers have the very same opinion!

Driving demands 100% of your attention. Anyone who says that they don't see the person on the other end of the line, are not being truthful to themselves.....

The survey has not taken into account any volume nor density of traffic, nor used that to compare to accident rates. After 9pm is a 'quiet' time for accidents anyway. Now that might be a good thing considering they were looking for 'safe' time increase to see a change int he pattern so perhaps 'reasonable'. However you would need to check for the volume/density to be sure your stats were meaningful and related to start with to recognise any alterations.

Considering too that the US has a wide use of 'push to talk' that may be significant too.
Plus we don't have time limits (thankfully) on cost or time use so it eases when calls or time is used (making no increase at certain times).

I can't why they wouldn't include internet use & texting (surely more dangerous?)!
However if they only used network data there is nothing to say who was using the phone while they were in transit. Any passenger could have used it!
From this media report there is not enough substance to be meaningful. However further study of the actual report is needed as the media rarely cover many of the facts.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Putting on lipstick, checking an A-Z or road atlas for a route, fishing for money for a toll bridge, rummaging in the glove box for a CD, having a couple of squabbling kids in the back..... etc. etc. can all be equally as bad as using a mobile phone.

And, if having one hand off the wheel is so dangerous should we allow people with only 1 hand to drive at all?

And if I had my phone between my legs (not that I would, I would throw it on the passenger seat), then no, my priority when braking would be to have the car under control, where the phone ended up would not be at all important.

Fact is, if using a mobile was as dangerous as you make out then we would see daily reports of phone users crashing. Fact is such incidents are rare even though it seems like every 3rd driver has the phone clamped to their ear some days.

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I remain completely unconvinced about this. Are you really telling me that pootling along a straight, dry, clear, deserted A-road requires the same amount of attention as coming into the first corner in an F1 race? Also, what IS "100% attention"? If you are driving along the motorway using your full "100%" attention, what happens when there's a pile-up in front of you? Presumably, you can't summon up any more "attention" because you're already giving it 100%? Why haven't KSIs gone up since sat-navs were invented? Why do car manufacturers still fit radios? Are automatics generally reckoned as being safer than cars with manual transmissions? Giving ANYTHING "100%" of your attention for any length of time is exhausting. I'm a lousy guitar player - Mrs M takes the mickey out of me because apparently, when I'm concentrating really hard, I assume a particularly gormless expression, my mouth hangs open and I sometimes dribble. As I do none of these when driving, I can only assume that I am not concentrating as hard on my driving as I am on my guitar playing (and am therefore an accident waiting to happen). HOWEVER, when playing the guitar, I sometimes become oblivious to what's going on around me (such is the level of attention I'm devoting to it). Surely that is NOT a desirable state of affairs when driving?


I'm in my company car. It has a good hands-free. The phone rings, I answer it, and someone I've never met from some company or other speaks to me. How am I supposed to "see them"?

Breathtaking double standards going on here. Why do you not respond like this to the abuse other posters dish out, mainly to me?

I also happen to think it's perfectly reasonable to suggest that somebody that uses a mobile phone whilst behind the wheel of a one tonne motorised vehicle in a public place is an idiot for doing so.

As Oscar says, drink drivers think "well, I'll be perfectly safe if I drive" the same applies to those that choose to operate a mobile phone whilst responsible for such a vehicle; it's clearly not perfectly safe.

It doesn't surprise me that weepej is sticking to his view, but I still think he's wrong. I am, however, surprised to see the somewhat dogmatic line, and slightly offensive tone, adopted by Oscar. Just because some research is claimed to have been done, there is no certainty that it correctly identifies and quantifies the dangers for us, whether we are talking about mobile phones or drink driving.

Anyhow, Mole has very clearly countered the claim that the driving task needs 100% concentration at all times, regardless of the circumstances. It is fortunate that driving does not require 100% concentration at all times, because we simply could not maintain it. We need to apply sufficient concentration to ensure that we can maintain safe driving, and that is all that's needed. Anything more than that is superfluous.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

It's a very curious thing - one that's come up in the past and I'm genuinely puzzled by it! Most people on here (myself included) DON'T regard exceeding the speed limit as being necessarily dangerous. They are quick to point out that the level of danger depends on multiple (and frequently changing) factors. It's been debated to death (and then some!) on here for many years. If there's one way to get a typical SS poster riled, it's to make some dogmatic, dumbed-down, generalised blanket statement like "speed kills"! ANY kind of research that so much as dares to suggest that greater speed limit compliance improves road safety is quickly pounced-upon and ripped to shreds (in some cases (and in my opinion) quite justifiably so)!

And yet, there seems to be a MUCH greater willingness to believe the establishment dogma that using a hand-held mobile whilst driving IS automatically dangerous! Even when we get this piece of research, which has the temerity to suggest otherwise, there's quite a reluctance to even give it an airing! (And let's face it, 8 million accidents is the sort of sample size that the camera partnerships couldn't even DREAM of getting)!

No axe to grind, everyone's entitled to their own opinion of course, AND (for the record), I wouldn't ENCOURAGE the use of hand-held mobiles and am quite happy to see the ban in place (at least for the time being), but the apparent inconsistency does puzzle me!

My view is unchanged after reading various reports and articles.

If you are driving then you should not be on the phone. If you want to make or receive a call then stop where safe and convenient to do so. Why is this so difficult for some people to do or understand? Ask yourself what is the primary activity which you are performing and act accordingly.

However, it should be allowed for people to use a mobile while stationary in the vehicle and I don't accept the "startled" response argument put forward above.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Problem is that a lot of folks won't do that . Whether walking or cycling or driving.
I must admit I've never seen a motorcyclist on a mobile. Bit dificult through a helmet, but there's firms that do hands free comms(thats between bikes ,or rider to passenger or for mobile use) for Motorbikes . I've even seen folks pull onto the hard shoulder of a motorway and stop to take a call .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

I can see the lines being blurred before very long with the latest from Samsung

I think the Google Glasses are banned for use in cars too but then, as someone said to me, what‘s the difference between them and a Heads Up Display?

Blurrrrr.....

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

sorry - tone- I do one thing- take mobile out of pocket and pass to mrs B WHEN IT RINGS. She answers and either deals or asks them to call back in five/ ten minutes. Simple.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Good idea. I don't have anyone to pass mine to, but it's what I'd do in your situation. I still just either turn mine off or wait 'till I can pull over somewhere safe. When I'm driving I don't pretend to be an admin cleric and use my car as a moblie office. I am focused on what I should be doing. I wouldn't want a surgeon opperating on me and taking calls in between from his mate asking "wot ya doin?". Same thing as far as I'm concerned. There's enough 'never events' happening as there is through lack of concentration...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

By touching your phone you have just broken the law, haven't you?

For me that is one of the most inconvenient parts of the offence, you cannot even check to see if you need to take the call without pulling over. Having said that a cradle or linking to your car/sat-nav gets around the problem easily enough.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

Phone is in case ,so technically I don't touch it . I touch the sock outside it .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

What do you think the chance is of getting off a ticket using that as an excuse?

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

This only serves to reinforce my feeling that the driving/mobile phone law in its present form was ill-conceived, and that it has ended up as a load of nonsense.

So far as hand-held phones are concerned we sometimes hear that you're not allowed to touch the phone, but at other times it is said that you're not allowed to hold the phone, and I don't know which of those is correct. We also hear that using the phone constitutes an offence, but what do they mean by using?

Suppose I have my phone on the front passenger seat, but it is face down. Do I commit an offence by touching it in order to turn it over so that I can see whether or not it is switched on? I don't regard that as using the phone, or even holding it, but I would presumably be guilty of touching it, even though it might equally well have been a small hand-held calculator I was turning over, but so far as I'm aware having a calculator on the seat next to me and turning that over is not (yet) an offence!

So, in order to be able to legally use a hand-held phone what do I have to do? Ensure that the car is stationary, engine not running, handbrake applied, key out of the ignition? Does that make it OK? I really don't know.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

I've used mine as a very good Sat Nav. Does the act of touching it for any reason mean I'm using it inappropriately? I think it comes down to common sense.

When I have seen drivers on one of those police TV programs, they have stopped them because they have it jammed in their ear going around bends and islands etc. That's a fair cop I would say.

If, however, as I openly do admit, I have been stuck on the M6 southbound in stationary gridlocked traffic and I call work to say I'm going to be late, a common sense traf pol ought to turn a blind eye and distinguish betweeen the two different situations.

That's the sort of traf pol I would be.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Like Dave ,I wonder what the offence is . Perhaps you can tell . One law site on the net quotes Since 2003 it has been a specific offence to operate a hand-held mobile phone while driving.

I could hardly be operaiting a mobile in it's sock and folded .
.

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

It's Construction & Use Reg. 110:

Mobile telephones
110.
(1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a road if he is using–
(a) a hand-held mobile telephone; or
(b) a hand-held device of a kind specified in Paragraph (4).

(2) No person shall cause or permit any other
person to drive a motor vehicle on a road while
that other person is using–
(a) a hand-held mobile telephone; or
(b) a hand-held device of a kind specified in Paragraph (4).

(3) No person shall supervise a holder of a provisional licence if the person supervising is using–
(a) a hand-held mobile telephone; or
(b) a hand-held device of a kind specified in Paragraph (4), at a time when the provisional licence holder is driving a motor vehicle on a road.

(4) A device referred to in Paragraphs (1)(b), (2)(b) and (3)(b) is a device, other than a two-way radio, which performs an interactive communication function by transmitting and receiving data.

(5) A person does not contravene a provision of this regulation if, at the time of the alleged contravention–
(a) he is using the telephone or other device to call the police, fire, ambulance or other emergency service on 112 or 999;
(b) he is acting in response to a genuine emergency; and
(c) it is unsafe or impracticable for him to cease driving in order to make the call (or, in the case of an alleged contravention of Paragraph (3)(b), for the provisional licence holder to cease driving while the call was being made).

(6) For the purposes of this regulation–
(a) a mobile telephone or other device is to be treated as hand-held if it is, or must be, held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function;
(b) a person supervises the holder of a provisional licence if he does so pursuant to a condition imposed on that licence holder prescribed under Section 97(3)(a) of the
Road Traffic Act 1988 (grant of provisional licence);
(c) "interactive communication function" includes the following:
(i) sending or receiving oral or written messages;
(ii) sending or receiving facsimile documents;
(iii) sending or receiving still or moving images; and
(iv) providing access to the internet;
(d) "two-way radio" means any wireless telegraphy apparatus which is designed or adapted–
(i) for the purpose of transmitting and receiving spoken messages; and
(ii) to operate on any frequency other than 880 MHz to 915 MHz, 925 MHz to 960 MHz, 1710 MHz to 1785 MHz, 1805 MHz to 1880 MHz, 1900 MHz to
1980 MHz or 2110 MHz to 2170 MHz; and
(e) "wireless telegraphy" has the same meaning as in Section 19(1) of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949

It looks, therefore, as though you actually need to be holding it for the offence to be committed. Bizarrely, it also seems to suggest that if your phone has a sat-nav function that accesses the maps using its data connection, then you're not allowed to hold it, but if you've downloaded the maps to it beforehand, then you're fine! (Para. 6.(C) (IV).

It's not dangerous, however, to use a hand-held communications device operating on certain frequencies though...