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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 23:05 
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I did pose this on PH as question for Bib . And it created a lot of activity.

And "USING!"another minefield .

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 08:59 
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Quote:
Mobile telephones
110.
(1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a road if he is using–
(a) a hand-held mobile telephone; or
(b) a hand-held device of a kind specified in Paragraph (4).

So, where is the mention of all the stuff about sitting at the side of the road with the engine off? What is the definition of "driving" let alone "using" the hand held device.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 13:54 
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OK then guys, how about this:

I have a small hand-held memo taker that I occasionally use while driving. This is for recording details of routes, roads and points of interest like suitable wild camping spots for future holidays in our motorhome. This device is voice activated, so it starts recording when I start speaking to it. Now obviously it isn't a mobile phone, but does it amount to a 'forbidden device' in the context of the driving/mobile phone law?

In a sense, both transmitting and receiving functions are being operated. I speak to it, so that's me transmitting to it, and it records my speech, so it receives in order to do that. Then, of course, it has a playback function, in which case it (in a sense) is transmitting and I, by listening, am receiving.

Am I guilty of an offence by using this hand-held device in that way?

Best wishes all,
Dave.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 23:42 
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I don't believe so - any more than if you listened to an MP3 of yourself talking on the radio it would be "transmitting" to you. I think ""transmitting and receiving" in this context, means sending an electrical signal containing voice or data between the car and somewhere outside of the car. When I talk to someone, nobody thinks of it as me "transmitting" my voice.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:51 
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I put mine on silent and leave it in a pocket. Then it doesn't matter what messages or calls I miss until I get where I'm going. I can deal with them later. No call is that important. If it is that important it's the kind of call you shouldn't answer when driving anyway!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 13:48 
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A very small proportion of collisions are attributed to speeding. The most common cause is said to be inattention by drivers or other road users. Perversely, a huge amount of resource is dedicated to detection of speed over a posted limit while very little is done to address poor observation and distraction.

I can't see any problem with restricting the distractions which can occur while driving to attempt to improve safety. However, I imagine that, like speed enforcement, it will be very difficult to prove if it makes any significant difference.

We thus get back to the underlying point that the vast majority of drivers do so safely and having regard to road conditions. We are at the point where incremental improvments are so minute that it is of little use to legislate further.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 20:06 
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botach wrote:
Toltec wrote:
What do you think the chance is of getting off a ticket using that as an excuse? :D


Like Dave ,I wonder what the offence is . Perhaps you can tell . One law site on the net quotes Since 2003 it has been a specific offence to operate a hand-held mobile phone while driving.

I could hardly be operaiting a mobile in it's sock and folded .
.


Going on all of the threads on PH and other sites it seems to be down to what the officer thinks you were doing. It is such an awkward piece of legislation that I doubt any average person can really be sure what is legal.

It probably comes down to the usual method, take a good look around and make sure there is no one to see you 'using' it.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 13:07 
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teabelly wrote:
I put mine on silent and leave it in a pocket. Then it doesn't matter what messages or calls I miss until I get where I'm going. I can deal with them later. No call is that important. If it is that important it's the kind of call you shouldn't answer when driving anyway!

:clap:

That's all I ever said, or meant to say, on the matter! Image

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:01 
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TripleS wrote:
I have a small hand-held memo taker that I occasionally use while driving. This is for recording details of routes, roads and points of interest like suitable wild camping spots for future holidays in our motorhome. This device is voice activated, so it starts recording when I start speaking to it. Now obviously it isn't a mobile phone, but does it amount to a 'forbidden device' in the context of the driving/mobile phone law?


I recall Jimmy Carr was prosecuted for using such a device, but got off.

I think they charged him with the wrong thing though so it was a technicality more than the police deciding he wasn't in proper control of the vehicle.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 18:24 
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TripleS wrote:
It doesn't surprise me that weepej is sticking to his view, but I still think he's wrong. I am, however, surprised to see the somewhat dogmatic line, and slightly offensive tone, adopted by Oscar. Just because some research is claimed to have been done, there is no certainty that it correctly identifies and quantifies the dangers for us, whether we are talking about mobile phones or drink driving.

Anyhow, Mole has very clearly countered the claim that the driving task needs 100% concentration at all times, regardless of the circumstances. It is fortunate that driving does not require 100% concentration at all times, because we simply could not maintain it. We need to apply sufficient concentration to ensure that we can maintain safe driving, and that is all that's needed. Anything more than that is superfluous.

Best wishes all,
Dave.


Sorry if I came over as rude, Dave, I didn't mean to; but it is my pet hate above all others and not just when driving. I keep one in the car for emergencies and am still on my first £10 of credit!

One wonders how the world managed before the bloody things were invented?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 09:56 
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Oscar wrote:
but it is my pet hate above all others and not just when driving.



Mine too, if you've ever just walked behind somebody who's on one, been in the supermarket whilst the person in front tries to pack their shopping whilst talking on one, or stood behind somebody trying to get cash out of cash machine whilst they've got the phone to their ear.

Some are better at it than others, but pretty much, they're all seriously compromised in doing what they supposed to be doing.

And there are people that think they can drive a car and use a mobile phone at the same time...


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 20:55 
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weepej wrote:
.

And there are people that think they can drive a car and use a mobile phone at the same time...


And not to leave out our two wheeled friends, some think it's ok to text with both hands and cycle . Give them a toot to make them aware of your presence and you will get two fingers rampant.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:27 
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botach wrote:
weepej wrote:
.

And there are people that think they can drive a car and use a mobile phone at the same time...


And not to leave out our two wheeled friends, some think it's ok to text with both hands and cycle . Give them a toot to make them aware of your presence and you will get two fingers rampant.


Yup, there are people who act like idiots in and on all forms of transport out there botach.

You toot and them and get abuse and you're surprised?

9 out of 10 drivers I challenge for using a mobile phone whilst driving get very very angry, my stars they dish out some abuse, really nasty stuff, and sometimes they threaten to kill me.

So you're surprise you get two fingers you get abuse when you hoot some twat on a cycle who's using a mobile phone (which is not actually illegal)?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:13 
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weepej wrote:
Mine too, if you've ever just walked behind somebody who's on one, been in the supermarket whilst the person in front tries to pack their shopping whilst talking on one, or stood behind somebody trying to get cash out of cash machine whilst they've got the phone to their ear.

Some are better at it than others, but pretty much, they're all seriously compromised in doing what they supposed to be doing.

And there are people that think they can drive a car and use a mobile phone at the same time...


If you're going to cite totally irrelevant examples, you may as well also say that you've never seen anybody make a decent job of playing Chopin's Fantasie Impromptu whilst holding a mobile phone too... :roll:


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:38 
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Mole wrote:
If you're going to cite totally irrelevant examples, you may as well also say that you've never seen anybody make a decent job of playing Chopin's Fantasie Impromptu whilst holding a mobile phone too... :roll:


They're not irrelevant though are they. It's clear somebody using a mobile phone is seriously distracted from whatever they're doing, whether it's simply walking, using a cash machine, checking out at a supermarket, driving, cycling, or playing Chopin's Fantasie Impromptu.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 19:44 
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weepej wrote:
They're not irrelevant though are they. It's clear somebody using a mobile phone is seriously distracted from whatever they're doing, whether it's simply walking, using a cash machine, checking out at a supermarket, driving, cycling, or playing Chopin's Fantasie Impromptu.


You could say exactly the same about a mum on the school run (or around the supermarket) with three screaming kids. What do you do, ban screaming kids?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 20:21 
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graball wrote:
You could say exactly the same about a mum on the school run (or around the supermarket) with three screaming kids. What do you do, ban screaming kids?


No you couldn't!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 20:32 
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Sorry, but I've temporarily lost the point because I would vote for a ban on kids screaming. It's unpleasant and only a devoted mother would listen to it like I listen to The Blue Danube.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 20:37 
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weepej wrote:

So you're surprise you get two fingers you get abuse when you hoot some twat on a cycle who's using a mobile phone (which is not actually illegal)?

Not illegal , but only a candidate for a Darwin award will do it. I said TEXTING, not using .

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 23:39 
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weepej wrote:
Mole wrote:
If you're going to cite totally irrelevant examples, you may as well also say that you've never seen anybody make a decent job of playing Chopin's Fantasie Impromptu whilst holding a mobile phone too... :roll:


They're not irrelevant though are they. It's clear somebody using a mobile phone is seriously distracted from whatever they're doing, whether it's simply walking, using a cash machine, checking out at a supermarket, driving, cycling, or playing Chopin's Fantasie Impromptu.


No. I've seen lots of people walking and talking (I've done it myself, in fact) and the vast majority of the ones I've seen make a pretty reasonable job of it! Certainly I've never walked under any buses whilst talking on a mobile! As for the other activities, packing shopping is rather like playing the piano - it's a 2-handed job!!! Of course someone holding a phone is going to struggle! Similarly (depending on where you keep your card), using a cashpoint is a 2 handed job too. If this is about not having enough hands to do the job, why don't emergency services vehicle drivers, CB-using truckers, taxi drivers and Top Gear presenters keep crashing when they use their 2-way radios? Come to that, why to the DVLA still allow one-handed disabled people to have driving licences?


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