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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 14:41 
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:gatso2: From the BBC News

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30249249
BBC News wrote:
The three-point turn could be dropped from the UK driving test as part of biggest update to the exam in 20 years.

Under a revised practical exam, learners may also be asked to use a satellite navigation system instead of following road signs.

About 1,000 learners will take part in a trial of a new practical exam.

The Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency said any eventual changes would be subject to full public consultation.

"We are carrying out initial research to explore how the driving test could better reflect real-life driving," said a DVSA spokesman.

The DVSA is an agency of the Department for Transport and sets the standards for driving and motorcycling in the UK.

The theory test was introduced in 1996 and a section where motorists are asked to find their own way to a destination - aimed at assessing "independent driving" - in 2010.

Under the other changes being considered, drivers may no longer need to reverse around a corner.

The DVSA said drivers may instead be asked to focus on more realistic everyday manoeuvres, such as reversing out of a parking bay, or re-joining the flow of traffic from the side of a road.

But reverse parking - either into a parking bay or parallel parking - would remain as one of the manoeuvres candidates could be asked to perform, a spokesman said.

The two vehicle-safety questions are currently asked at the start of the test. In future, one these may be asked while the candidate is driving. The DVSA said a candidate, for example, may be asked to show how they would operate the rear heated screen while driving.


Has April Fools day come early or late? :loco: These proposed measures are absolutely ridiculous and if implemented may well lead to an increase in KSI statistics.

:drive1: So, it's proposed no more three-point turns or reversing round a corner. How does this "better reflect the standards of modern driving?" IT'S BASIC CONTROL OF A VEHICLE WHICH YOU NEED TO HAVE!" :banghead:

"Use a satellite navigation system instead of following road signs" They cannot possibly be serious! :loco: :banghead: :furious: :nono:

The Highway Code clearly states -

Rule 150

There is a danger of driver distraction being caused by in-vehicle systems such as satellite navigation systems, congestion warning systems, PCs, multi-media, etc. You MUST exercise proper control of your vehicle at all times. Do not rely on driver assistance systems such as cruise control or lane departure warnings. They are available to assist but you should not reduce your concentration levels. Do not be distracted by maps or screen-based information (such as navigation or vehicle management systems) while driving or riding. If necessary find a safe place to stop.
Laws RTA 1988 sects 2 & 3 & CUR reg 104

Whoever came up with these proposals clearly has little or no grip on reality.

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Last edited by CJG on Sat Nov 29, 2014 22:13, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 20:24 
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That wa my first thought....three point turns reflect a drivers ability to control the car at low speeds in a limited space....something few drivers seem to manage when they have passe a test from what I can see. I hope they don't practice reversing out of a parking space next to my car...;-)

So few young drivers have any grasp of how to indicate correctly today, I can't believe it is taught let alone tested and I saw on another forum that if a learner was to pull over to the side of the road and indicate so, if there are no other traffic around, they would be marked down....WHY????

Surely indicating your intentions (unless misleading) is one of the most important aspects of driving and it's good practice to do it always, regardless of who may or may not see it being done.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 00:57 
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Problem with the thre point turn is all the red tape associated. Perhaps better advice ( as I got on a van conversion course) is to never reverse unless ABSOLUTELY necessary, rather find a place to perform a complete circle. Why is it that on basic test, car drivers are expected to reverse looking over a shoulder, where more professional drivers can use (must use) mirrors. Perhaps if car drivers were taught to use mirrors for reversing, then a lot of supermart park clangers might not happen.
Indicating- I see on here too often preachings from IAM about indicating ONLY if some could see it. Stuff that-I believe in indicating at all times, then the one I don't see will know my intentions.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:21 
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botach wrote:
Why is it that on basic test, car drivers are expected to reverse looking over a shoulder, where more professional drivers can use (must use) mirrors. Perhaps if car drivers were taught to use mirrors for reversing, then a lot of supermart park clangers might not happen.


:gatso2:The driving test not only involves basic control of a vehicle, but also effective observation. The look over the shoulder is, as I was taught by an instructor, to guard against "the blind spot".

I don't reverse around corners anymore but I can still remember the precise sequence of checking in the mirrors and the look over the shoulder-something that the examiner expected me to demonstrate.

Three-point turns. Useful for car parks. I must say, reverse parking sensors help a lot

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 17:52 
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Quote:
I see on here too often preachings from IAM about indicating ONLY if some could see it. Stuff that-I believe in indicating at all times, then the one I don't see will know my intentions.


+1

:clap: :clap: :clap:

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 01:13 
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Grabs, comes from my driving mentor( my uncle, an ex desert rat tank driver) ,some 47 years ago- treat all other drivers as idiots, indicate when there's no one to see it ,as sooner or later some idiot will come out of the blue and accuse you of not showing intent.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 19:28 
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It just seems like the best policy to me. Sometimes there are so many other things going on that you don't have time to do a 360 degree scan to see if there is anyone to notice your indicator or not, so what's the harm in indicated to no-one?

Indicating automatically is a good habit because then you don't forget to do it...so many people can't be arsed and i seen soooo many near misses because some pratt hasn't indicated when they should have done, and even if it doesn't cause a near accident it can prevent flow of traffic because someone is waiting for a car to pass who turns off at the last minute..

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:10 
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It’s like all tests, a snapshot of your ability on the day which may be completely unrepresentative of how good or bad you really are. I was always told that once you pass your test you don’t really start to learn until afterwards, in the real world. Makes sense to me. I was a complete dork for a long time after I passed my tests, until I wised-up. I think if we took our driving test tomorrow we’d all fail, and yet we are good safe drivers. It’s like the undergraduates I get at work who have a degree or their Masters but are capable of nothing! All the confidence in the world thanks to a piece of paper but essentially useless.

I’m actually so fed up with the standard of drivers and sheer number of idiots on the road these days I want to give up driving altogether. But I’m caught up in the rat race, so it’d be like a fish hating water. Not a single day goes by where I don’t notice bad practices, viz: -

Poor road positioning at junctions, preventing the flow of other traffic
Not indicating your intentions
DITHERING! Once known, IIRC, as not making due progress on a test

The list goes on...

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You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 20:14 
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have to agree Tone. I sometimes thing that a test pass is down to whether you can start the car and pull away without stalling or down to the length of your skirt (I wore a very short one on my test...;-) )

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:01 
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I love my satnav, but you do have to be careful when using it, it's a skill to know when to look at it, to ensure you double check what's it saying with reality, and helps you make good decisions way in advance, like pulling across to an upcoming junction on a motorway early enough, well worth testing.

What's more, it's much better than people pulling maps out whilst they are driving, which I see all too regularly!


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 00:45 
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weepej wrote:
I love my satnav, but you do have to be careful when using it, it's a skill to know when to look at it, to ensure you double check what's it saying with reality, and helps you make good decisions way in advance, like pulling across to an upcoming junction on a motorway early enough, well worth testing.

What's more, it's much better than people pulling maps out whilst they are driving, which I see all too regularly!


And Blopalot said "WEED, what are you on about, unless you've been cremating relatives and inhaling". :shock:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 02:29 
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The DVLA do suggest that
BBC News wrote:
The Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency said any eventual changes would be subject to full public consultation.
"We are carrying out initial research to explore how the driving test could better reflect real-life driving," said a DVSA spokesman.

I think that encouraging as developing and looking to improve can be a good thing.
I do feel that with a vast and recent increase of foreign drivers who's ability is unlikely to be of the same (likely worse) level as UK drivers there is nothing in the Stats 19 to indicate if or when accidents occur with foreign Nations involved what driving qualifications they have. Therefor there is no link to those who do or do not hold a UK licence.

If they replace the 3 point turn (which is a good thing) to one of reverse parking OR one of pulling out to join traffic neither replaces the 3 point turn although all 3 ought to be in the test as a matter of course and necessity IMHO. There are many who seem very underconfident, but lets not forget that by informing drivers that driving skill is reduced to one of 'speed' as a priority lack of confidence is one that we will see. Therefor it is of little surprise that drivers are travelling with less skill and ability.
Adding aspects to the test might have a transient benefit but it is likely to only be temporary. However enforce all those who drive in the UK to take a full UK licence and the standards are likely to climb to a degree.

Reminding drivers that they are fully responsible and need to act in a predicable manner is also very important.
However I have found people saying (not been able to verify all the points) that they have been taught to indicate right when approaching a roundabout when intending to go 'straight' over.
Also that people are being taught to go from the slip road straight into the outside lane of a dual carriageway (to allow room for those joining) but I am thinking that some of these 'teachings' are simply mis-understood phrases !

Clarity on pulling out would be useful and some aspects of full motorway driving now ought to be tested with so many new signs and features being added, however that does add an impossible problem for those who are simply too far to join a motorway and one with those specific features so that will have to be proper compromises of A road similar features and principles. It is always an achievement that once passed the test you can go on the motorways but I think some people (and it seems often women) do need additional tuition. However tuition is available so what stops people from wanting to learn more? Money? Time? Effort? All three?


Reversing into real world parking spaces would perhaps be a good thing as going around a corner does teach the principal of going back but not the system of how to parallel park. So why isn't PP taught - even if only as an after pass course?
Perhaps this tells us that there are is a list of needs... One's that aren't really 'needed' to be in the test to be OK for the road, but those that once taught really help you have greater control and better handling of your car, in more detailed real world situations?
If that's the case, then should these needs not then be compulsory perhaps?
A bit like a post-passed course? One you have to take and succeed in? But then why not before you pass the test and one a qualified instructor can pass you in? A kind of NVQ prior to the full test? Might this whole step not help people realise that the learning is a step process? :scratchchin:

Maybe even encourage those who can see they are improving and passing the smaller steps along the way? Maye even making the test less scary?

BBC News wrote:
The DVSA said drivers may instead be asked to focus on more realistic everyday manoeuvres, such as reversing out of a parking bay, or re-joining the flow of traffic from the side of a road.

But reverse parking - either into a parking bay or parallel parking - would remain as one of the manoeuvres candidates could be asked to perform, a spokesman said.

The two vehicle-safety questions are currently asked at the start of the test. In future, one these may be asked while the candidate is driving. The DVSA said a candidate, for example, may be asked to show how they would operate the rear heated screen while driving.
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The driving test

First introduced in 1935
Test suspended during World War Two and the Suez crisis in 1956
Hand signals dropped in 1975 and theory test introduced in 1996
Practical test made up of eyesight check; vehicle safety questions; general driving ability; reversing vehicle safely, independent driving
Pass rate in 1935 was 63% compared with 46% in 2009
More than 46 million tests taken since 1946

line

The Driving Instructors Association welcomed the plans.

Its chief executive Carly Brookfield said: "DIA has been heavily involved in the scoping of this project and is enthusiastic about the opportunity it presents to evolve the L-test to a level where it more realistically assesses a candidate's ability to competently and safely manage road based risk and driving in real life, on real roads."

RAC Foundation director Professor Stephen Glaister said: "We all rely on our sat navs but they are not infallible and it is when they have led us down a dead end that we need to know how to do a three-point turn.

"It's fine to add some aspects to the test but we should be cautious about removing the basics."

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 00:57 
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It all shows a lack of knowledge about the current test procedure.
Currently only one in three test candidates will do a three point turn (and it isn't called that anyway). A driver who is going to be required to do the (turn the car around using forward/reverse gears with proper control/signalling/observation) three point turn will not be required to do an emergency stop or reverse around corner manoeuvre. Not exactly advertised is the reality that the driving test starts when you get into the car, and ends when the examiner says the test is over. That includes all actions within the parking area. Test candidates will be required, at test start and finish to park the car properly, EITHER by parking forward OR reverse into the space. They are allowed ONE correction to parking position at test end. Plenty of people have failed due parking inability.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 00:13 
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Then there's "hill start". take it in a FWD car and it's a dawdle, bonnet lift and car is held. No handbrake/ hill start assist- no need for control. how long before it's not part of test. then there's the parking assist function . Gimmick today ,as were windscreen washers/reversing lights when I started driving. So parallel park gets kicked into touch .

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 18:45 
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Mirror and signal usage was scrapped years ago it seems.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 23:39 
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From my observations in treacle town it would appear that driving in lane ( and keeping to the left one ) has been consigned to the scrapheap . indicating on roundabouts ,likewise. I've noticed that current trend is to stick on left indicator and proceed round, in a guess where I'm going fashion. Meanwhile, I notice traffic cars watching traffic ( or is it ANPR RESULTS) on some islands , taking no action.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


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