Safe Speed Forums

I found this on the web, and spent an enjoyable time reading through.
It give answers to questions posed to speeding drivers, and is a real insight to the typical attitudes of many drivers.
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/library5/finance/tsdw-29.asp

One question asks what you think/do when you see a speed camera:

this tends to come up over and over!!
and this one...

2nd one was a trainee driving instructor!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

The document referenced just goes to show how far away from reality some so-called researchers are. Better answers about 'the speeding driver' are on the following Safe Speed page:

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/why.html

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

What amazes me about these interviews is that they are apparently seen to support the case for speed cameras. To my mind, they underline the case that speed cameras have very limited use in road safety.

Here we have eight interviewees, four male and four female. Two of each sex were young and inexperienced and two of each were middle-aged and experienced.

There were ten crashes: three speed related (of which one was excess speed); three hit from behind while stationary; two hit/hit by emerging vehicle; one reversing; one road condition (ice).

The two speed related (not excess speed) crashes were (unsurprisingly) the young males and the reason for the crash was misjudging a bend. The excess speed crash was a middle-aged experienced male who, it appears, is probably a reasonably skilful and observant driver who made a gross error of judgement at high speed, but there was a fatigue (even sleep) component as well.

It is unlikely that any of these cases would have been prevented by speed cameras. The first two did not involve excess speed and the third involved a driver who probably only speeds where he knows there is no/low risk of enforcement anyway.

On the other hand, ALL of the crashes, speed related and others, would have been avoided if the drivers were better trained. I can't think of a series of cases which could better show the need for improved training. How this ends up as supporting the case for indiscriminate speed enforcement is beyond me.

I would be interested to see IanH's take on this.

Mmmm! All worried by tailgaters. The 20year old lass has makings of a decent driver with training. Yhe black ice was pure back luck to a youngster - and think a skid pan lesson may have helped her control at low speed. Think she panicked there.

The 19 year old girl definitely needs help. She needs experience and to build up confidence. And quickly - I think.

All agree on adverts and all admit to checking speed at speed cams. But this did not stop accidents occurring to them ....

But you are right Observer - apart form the rear ender at the right hand turn - better training and education would have helped them avoid.

Incident on the slip road - both drivers should have noted the jam in L1 whilst on the slip - perhaps - (but do not know this slip - is it a short one like M6 Lancaster?) - and approached with caution.

Note the gender difference - women are happy for motorways to remain at 70 mph (that 19 year old girl worries me here when she says she drives at 50 mph here and 40 mph on other rurals...and most of the men would be happy to see 80 mph...

But whilst they appear to be in favour of speed cams for some reason - did not seem to be much call for more BiB.

Still reckon we have right idea in my patch

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Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

I've read the first page. Two of them who took a corner too fast both said they were going no more than the speed limit at the time.

I have often questioned why they don't reduce the speed limits at bends on NSL roads to indicate what would actually be a safe speed in normal road conditions.

That speed limits are often based on whether the area is built-up means they seem to not care if you come off the road as long as you only hit a tree and not a pedestrian.

Continually changing speed limits instills confusion. The better way is, taking heed of the speed limit, to warn the motorist to slow down in one of several other ways, principally selected as one or more from the following:

Progressively closer together thick painted lines across the road, the word SLOW once or twice, Chevrons, with more sets for a more severe bend, a maximum advisory speed on a sign...

A safe speed differs significantly between diiferent cars etc. And normal conditions get worse.

The 'advisory' speed limits for bends they put up here in Flintshire are about half the speed which I can drive the bend safely in a car of reasonable performance.

Here in Cumbria, there is no consistancy - some advisory speeds are ludricously low, while some others are nearly spot on.
It only takes one rotten apple to spoild a barrel - and the same could be true of badly set limits on bends.
Once one has proved to be too low, the foolish driver is tempted to take the next a bit faster!
Top of Bannerigg - 35 Advisory - is EASILY taken at 45 by even the most cautious of drivers - the real problem is speed carried downhill to the next bend.
On the Newby Bridge road (A592) there is a sharp bend with a 30 Advisory, which is spot on - any faster, and you risk exiting over the white line, and meeting somebody coming the other way, no matter how clever you think you are - yes, I have tried it in my youth, and lived to tell the tale!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Mmmmm...... just read this thread while playing catch-up with the forums.

Just a couple of observations here:

Firstly, my only 'fault' accident in over 40 years of driving (the other two were being 'rear ended' when stationary or very nearly so) actually may have some relevance to the whole speed cam argument.

It happened in Weymouth a good number of years ago whilst on holiday there. I was travelling into Weymouth toward Portland Bill. As I recall, there was a bridge crossing a river and the traffic was fairly thick and travelling at maybe 20-25 mph. It was raining fairly heavily. I was in this stream of traffic and (mainly as a result of being rear-ended a coupl of times) I was a bit paranoid about the rear view mirror, constantly checking it. I was aware of a car following fairly closely and, yet again, checked the mirror. On returning my eyes to the road, I noticed that the vehicle in front had its brake lights on so I covered the pedal. By the time I realised that it was in the process of 'full-on' braking, it was too late. I slid gracefully into its rear bumper at about 4 mph!

Now, had I seen it start to brake, I'd probably have realised that it was braking hard by noting the attitude of the vehicle. So, I conclude that by missing that vital split second's worth of information (by looking in the mirror) I missed the 'cue' that I needed to 'stand on them'.

I see this as analogous to the situation created by the obsession with speed whereby constant attention to the speedometer is required. That split second could lead to the loss of that vital split second's worth of information that makes the difference.

Still with me?? OK, on to the second point (who said "Get on with it!"?)

Bends with advisory limits: I agree that most seem to be set awfully low, however, there is one near where I live (it's on the Acle straight - part of the A47 leading into Great Yarmouth if interested) which is marked 40 mph. Probably not because of the bend per se, however there is a junction on the apex and a pub (Pontiac Roadhouse) opposite. Now to me, that appears perfectly logical, and, taking account of the conditions, traffic etc, it is safe to take the bend at the limit current (NSL - single carriageway, 60 mph). However, I've lost track of the number of times I've encountered people who promptly drop to 40 mph and stay there for the next 7 miles of dead straight road all the way to Yarmouth. They are apparently seeing this as a limit sign, and, in conjunction with all the camera warning signs, believe they are in a 40 zone and stick to it.

Supplementary point: I've also met a huge number of people who travel on similar roads at an exact 50. I can only assume that they are not exactly up to date on limits.

Just an observation (or two). Cheers, Chris B.

Buckmac, I know the bend on the Acle Straight that you mention. Lots of advised speeds for bends do seem very low and perhaps were made years ago when cars were less stable. Also, as you say, some drivers see it as a real speed limit sign.

Another badly speed limited road locally is the A140 in Suffolk with too many changes of speed limit in a short distance. Makes for a difficult drive.

Horsford in Norfolk is a place I avoid with a 20mph speed limit on the main road through it. Seems downright dangerous as one is constantly checking the speedometer rather than watching anything else.

I believe that it is almost impossible to drive today in a modern car without breaking some speed limit if only by a few mph. I'm not so bothered by speed cameras; I just want to drive within the limit ... if I knew what it was in many cases as signing is so bad. There seem to be lots of devices for detecting cameras. I'd just like something in the car that would monitor my speed against the current speed limit and advise me of any excess.

Another thing that annoys me is the extending of speed limits outside villages. Sometimes you come across a speed limit out in the country apparently miles from anywhere. By the time you reach the village it is "protecting" one's speed has crept up again.


Do road planners actually drive?