Safe Speed Forums

I do not see this subject anywhere on the first page so I will raise it here. ( Even although I am sure that you have spoken about this before, please bear with me ! ).

I am sure that we agree that with traffic-calming policies in force it is far more difficult for emergency vehicles to get to their destination in the time that they need to to be fully effective.

With the congestion on the roads in our towns and cities getting worse by the day the emergency vehicles have now not only got to navigate chicanes and speedbumps but they also have to try to push all of the tightly-packed vehicles over to the kerbside to get by. ( Some drivers will not pull over at all ! ).

Increasingly now I see police, ambulance, and fire-service vehicles speeding and going through red lights in order to get to the shout.

What do you feel about this situation, and do you feel that the emergency-vehicles should be allowed to break the law to get to a shout on time ?

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Regards

Papaumau

http://www.rip-off.co.uk/index1.htm
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They are currently allowed to exceed speed limits when "on a shout", and so they should be.

The Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 states that: "No statutory speed limit on motor vehicles shall apply to any vehicle being used for fire brigade, ambulance or police purposes, if the observance of that limit would be likely to hinder that use."

Regards,

Peter

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Yeh, I sorta guessed that !

But are they allowed to go through red lights to get to a shout ?

I ask this as if they cause an accident will they be held responsible and will their insurance be valid in this situation ?

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Regards

Papaumau

http://www.rip-off.co.uk/index1.htm
http://www.network54.com/hide/forum/100558

They are held responsible for any accidents they cause. Being allowed to exceed speed limits and go through red lights in no way absolves them from their duty to drive with due care and attention.
They do have aids in the form of lights and sirens, but these are to warn others, and this doesn't always work.

Regards
Peter

Yes - we are held to account! There is always internal enquiry and disciplinary if we do something we should not. We do use the sirens and thelights to warn you all that we are there. Failure to do so is disciplinary. I am based, very fortunately, in non-pratnership Force anyway - but do know from less fortunate colleagues, that they do check to make sure we are on a shout if we ping a speed camera.

Having lived in Germany for a number of years, one of the first things I was told, that if you were considered to have ignored an emergency vehicle on blues and twos and impeded its progress, you would have a visit from the Polizei(Plod).
They would be in possesion of a very major sense of humour failure, and you would be on the receiving end of a rather large and painful ticket.

My own opinion of this is, one day, that emergency vehicle could be coming to save my or my families lives, so, if at all possible, even driving a truck, I will get out of the way.

I used to drive ambulances, and found the british drivers the worst for getting out of the way, they must have thought we were heading for a tea break.

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Semper in excreta, nur quantitat variat.

Pete312.....you said....



I find that this term is open to the interpretation of the coppers on site at the time !

I am sure that an emergency vehicle might get away with murder as far as "driving with due care and attention" is concerned and an ordinary road-user might be viewed through a completely different pair of glasses, ( not rose-tinted in this case ).

I would like to suggest that even with blues & twos blaring a red light crossing event or a middle of the road driving event or a speeding event might be construed by the law as OK if it is an E.V. that is doing it, but anybody else will get severely done.

In other words...How can even an emergency vehicle break the speed limits, drive down the centre of the road, go through traffic lights, and STILL be seen to be driving with "due care and attention" ? Especially if by doing this they cause an accident and there are more causalties caused because of this type of driving.

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Regards

Papaumau

http://www.rip-off.co.uk/index1.htm
http://www.network54.com/hide/forum/100558

The biggest problem is the motorists who drive around in a day dream and do not even notice the emergency vehicles.

If drivers paid attention to what was happening, their would not be an accident with emergency vehicles with blues & twos.

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Steve

Had one today - ambulance approaching from behind, siren clearly audible, I pull into the side of the road, muppet behind me makes as if to overtake, then suddenly realises his mistake

Regards,

Peter

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

....modern emergency vehicles have sirens that are forward and rearward directable and they are like this so that only the vehicles directly in front and behind can hear them.

If this is the case then how do vehicles at the side of the road and at junctions know they are coming If they cannot see them for traffic ?

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Regards

Papaumau

http://www.rip-off.co.uk/index1.htm
http://www.network54.com/hide/forum/100558

Diffraction!

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-mike[F]
Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..

My point was, doing these things is onlyacceptable if they can be done in safety - regardless of whether it's an E.V. with blues and twos going, or not.
It's quite safe to go through a red light having first ascertained that there's nothing coming on, reckless if there is. It's quite safe to do 100mph+ on an empty motorway in good weather. It's quite safe to drive along the centre of the road provided there's nothing coming on - in fact, it's probably the safest place to be.
It could be argued that this should apply to all drivers, but the difference is, if you or I do any of those things, we run the risk of a fine - even if there's no danger. An emergency driver doesn't.
But, crucially, no driver, even an emergency driver, should do things like going through a red light if it's unsafe to do so.

Regards
Peter

Hi all,

I always suspected that a lot of times emergency vehicles driver's turned on the beacons just to get through red lights and now it has been confirmed.

I'm a regular pedestrian at a junction in Glasgow where the Ambulance depot is, without fail every time I see an ambulance come out the depot it drives normally up to the lights (about 200M), which are usually red, and then without fail turn on the sirens to go through the lights. Now what is the odds that every time I'm on the pavement at them lights and an ambulance gets within about 50M of the lights that it gets an emergency call at that same point in the road ? Rarely do I see them come out the depot with lights and sirens on or going through the lights and then turning lights on.

Seen police doing it where a line of cars has built up at the lights, you see the police a few cars back approaching the line then nee-naw they suddenly get an emergency call ?

Andrew

Um, well I don't think they have to have the sirens on when the road is clear - in fact, they could just panic other traffic and in fact create an obstruction on an otherwise clear road. I often see ambulances only turning on their sirens to get through a busy stretch, then turning them off when it's clear.

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-mike[F]
Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..

You're quite correct Mike, I was always told, mininum use of siren and switch it off asap after the hazard is cleared.
I once did Warminster to RUH Bath in less than half an hour, very seriously ill and life threatened baby on board, even then, I only used the nee naa when really necessary. It can upset adult patients, so what could all that unnessary noise do to a baby.

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Semper in excreta, nur quantitat variat.