Safe Speed Forums

Bee in my bonnet time is here........

Tailgating has just GOT to be THE most frequent dangerous activity that I see on today's roads. It is far, far, more common than the 'speedsters', and must be getting on to be the cause of a large percentage of accidents today.

I drove from Jn 16 M6 to visit IKEA in Warrington yesterday (Sunday), leaving at Jn 21, which is at the end of the Thelwall viaduct. Being the end of half-term the traffic was heavy, with a continuous stream of cars in the 3rd lane all literally FEET apart. And this at 70 mph or more !!! Being a careful sort of chap, I kept to Lane 1, which was mostly empty, apart from the ocasional truck and 'numpty', all of which I was easily able to pass around and move back into Lane 1, and blessed safety to keep about 200 yards clear in front of me, and still travel at 60 -65.

We passed an obvious tailgate shunt on the Southbound side, with traffic backed-up as far as the eye could see.

Please tell me, why do people do it. Are they all mad or something ??

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Good manners maketh a good motorist

IMO because they think they can handle a car, i prefer to have a bad driver in front of me so i can watch him rather than behind me
not knowing what he is going to do

I prefer to have them behind me because then it's their fault if an accident occurs.

My car is fitted with mirrors so I can see what is going on behind. They are useful.

Yes, they are all mad.

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Andrew.

There's no excuse for it at all, and I'd rather they were behind - that way I dont get stuck in the tailback

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

If you want to get them off your back your best bet is to just move out the way, otherwise try spraying your water jets a few times and they usually get the message

Regards


Andrew

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It's a scam........or possibly a scamola


Homer Simpson

I used to have a great defence against tailgaters, then i got a new air filter fitted and the smoke-bomb went away....

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

I don't seem to suffer from tailgaters a great deal, and I don't know why.

I'm not trying to have a subtle dig at anyone, I'm just interested as to why this is. It could be:

1. Perception, ie what others consider tailgating is not considered as such by me.
2. The fact that I drive fairly fast.
3. The fact that I am fairly anal about lane discipline (because I hate lane hogs myself, and therefore think if my lane discipline is better, I may give a good example), so perhaps I don't make people want to tailgate me.

When people do tailgate me, it doesn't bother me much anyway because their not altering my progress, whereas slow drivers in front are.

I am with you on this one Johnnytheboy.

I don't get tailgated in the inside lane.

I don't get a lot of people in front of me either.

And I don't hang about.

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Shooting is good for you and too good for some people.

What really annoys me is when the motorway is busy, you're in lane 3 in the middle of a long line of traffic all doing the same speed, and you get some arse driving 1 inch from your bumper.

What does he expect you to do? Somehow speed up and ram into the traffic in front? Or move over into the non-existant space in lane 2? Some people just don't seem to think and they don't usually realise that they are tailgating, to them it's just normal driving.

I have to say that in all honesty I don't suffer much with tailgaters locally. I found that the worst offenders are on the motorways around London (having only once had the 'pleasure' of driving INTO london) ...

I drove from Swindon to Windsor along the M4 at rush hour a couple of months back. Now, when I'm in heavy m/way traffic, I always leave a couple of car lengths in front to allow me to adjust my speed without braking (perfectly reasonable behaviour IMO because it prevents bunching). I was in L2, L1 and L3 were solid, and some asshole in a BMW came right up the back of me, flashing and gesticulating at me... That was a mile or so from Windsor.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

A couple of car lengths eh? At what sort of speed, 20mph, 30 mph?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

let's see. 2 car lengths = 7-10m. given a required 2s gap = 3.5-5m/s = 12-18km/h or say 7-11mph.

can I have some of that popcorn Paul?

I'm generally the same as Johnnytheboy.

I don't like a faster car up my behind...but usually take this as a cue to move out of the way.

If I can't then I don't.....but I can't say I've ever encountered a situation where I was being aggressively tailgated and couldn't move over or accelerate........are those situations not called 'traffic jams'?

Also incredibly anal about lane discipline.....my major road hate!

I'm not even going to go there...it depends on the traffic and general conditions.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

My 2p


Consider the situation where one of my friends was caught out following a numpty who accidentally stood on the brakes on the motorway because they got the pedals confused and panicked (I’m not kidding):

Assuming legal motorway speeds (I hope my maths is correct):

2 car lengths = 8 meters

The following driver needs 0.67s to think, react and start braking (as per Highway code)

Lead car brakes at 1G. At the end of 0.67s, the following car will be closer by 0.5*10*0.67^2 = 2.25m before it even start braking

After a 1G differential for 0.67s, the cars will have a differential speed differential of 0.5*10 = 6.7m/s

Resulting with (8-2.25)/6.7 = 0.86s braking time of following car before contact (irrespective of speed)

The following car also brakes at 1G, the speed of the following car at the point of contact is from 70mph = 31.3 – 10*0.86 = 22.7m/s = 50.8mph

Therefore, there will be contact and it will happen when the cars still have a lot of energy – scary!



At 30mph where the driver of the lead car recognises a hazard before the driver of the following car (a likely scenario):

There may still be contact as the thinking/reaction distance is generally greater than the differential distance between the cars, assuming the following car’s brakes are at least as good at those on the lead car (which will be an unknown variable to the following driver).

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Two car lengths, say 50 feet.

I assume none of us think being closer than 1 second other than on a transient basis is a good thing? The makximum speed therefore that two car lengths following is acceptable would be 50 ft/s - something just over 30. In reality 2 seconds is a more reralistic travelling space at low speeds, and 3 seconds at higher speeds.

So... rule of thumb: two car lengths per 15 mph - at low speeds. Two car lengths per 10 mph at higher speeds.

Does this make sense?

Can I press you and ask why you won't elaborate?
My point (obviously) is that at anything near normal motorway speeds 2 car lengths could be construed as tailgating. I understand why people do this and it is very common to see on motorways, but reducing ones safety margin in heavy traffic is not (IMHO) the solution, although it may appear to be. In fact it creates additional problems as one persons braking will filter back down the queue as progressively increased braking until the whole motorway grind to a halt (hence the phantom trafic jam), and/or someone runs into the back of the vehicle ahead.
Please don't take this personally Sixy, its not intended to be! I believe it poses an interesting question namely, how do we fit increasing numbers of vehicles on our roads without compromising overall safety?

We're going to have to go there because you're miles out and we want you to be safe.

The general recommendation is 'two seconds' which is about 15 car lengths at 70mph and almost 20 car lengths at 90mph.

At 2 car lengths you could be prosecuted for careless driving. Honest.

It's hard to judge these distances sometimes, so here's an easier method: Don't think in distance - think in time. I wait for the vehicle in front to pass a mark (any sort of mark) on the road. Then I count to myself, slowly, under my breath: 1... thousand... 2 ... thousand. If I reach the mark before I've finished speaking I'm too close, so I drop back a bit and try again. Have a go. Please.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I may be wrong, but I read the original post in the sense of a couple of car lengths in excess of the normal [2 second] gap.

In other words, if following at 2 secs and car in front brakes, you have to brake too to maintain the safe gap. At (2 secs + a bit extra) you can coast towards the braking car for a moment or two without having to propogate what may well be a spurious "dab". In other words your extra space becomes a buffer you can use to absorb the erratic braking of the car in front.

I know that's not what the post said, but with respect to the context of the remark, ie the bit about "in heavy traffic" and "to adjust my speed without braking" leads me to believe that this is what it meant.

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!