Safe Speed Forums

Hi guys, I could really do with some advice regarding a speeding ticket I was given last night on a dual carriageway...

My main problem with it is I have no idea what they used to prove me doing an apparent 84mph...

I glanced in my mirror and s split second later there was an unmarked car with its lights flashing. It could not have been there any longer than a few seconds...

He said he had 'video evidence' of me doing the above mentioned speed, but is this possible?

I knievely signed the NIP, but more because he said it was just a 'specimen' signature.

Do they actually have any proof? I didn't admit to anything, nor tho did I deny it. I have a clean licence (well, did have). I presume I now have the option of either paying it or letting it go to court... But is there a way I could find out if they have this 'proof'?

Sorry to blab on with all the questions

Unmarked car on a dual carriageway - good chance they got you with VASCAR. It's basically a glorified stopwatch with a video system, a little computer gadget times you between two points (like those squares you sometimes see painted in the middle of lanes, or between one bridge and the next), and then works out the distance between those two points. Divide one by the other and they have your average speed over that distance. And in case you argue the toss they can play the video in court and anyone can work it out with a pencil and paper. I'm no expert but I understand that it's pretty difficult to argue with. I believe the only get-out is if they haven't bothered to calibrate the thing on schedule, or possibly if they record a speed your vehicle is physically incapable of (not likely).There is the possibility that they just matched speeds with you and saw from their own speedo that you were doing 84 (some police cars e.g. motorway patrol types, have calibrated speedos that are much more accurate than in regular cars so they can do this). However, I think that wouldn't provide any video evidence so VASCAR seems liklier. There's some info about it on http://www.speed-trap.co.uk/Accused_Home/Gadgets/Gadgets_Home.htm - VASCAR and calibrated speedos are about 3/4 of the way down the page.

How easy it might be to get a copy of the video I have no idea. It might depend on which force caught you, or you may not be allowed to view it unless you decide to fight it in court. I'd go to http://www.pepipoo.com for more advice about the legal side of things, and contact the force that caught you to ask about what device they used and how to get the video if you need it. If you seriously want to defend it then you'll probably need a copy of the calibration of the device they used too. If you know you were speeding and 84 mph seems about right it might be easiest to just pay up with good grace. Unfortunately you can't justify speeding because it was safe to do so at the time and everyone else was... well, not unless you're at least an Assistant Chief Constable.

_________________
Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

Wow, thanks very much for taking the time to make that reply, greatly appreciated. I think I may just pay it and take the points tbh, seems like a whole lot of hassle for a 'maybe'.

Thanks again.

Before you actually do decide to pay it, please pause to consider your possible position in 2 years time when you could be facing 12 points. Will you regret giving up 25% of your driving licence in 2004 without a fight?

You might also consider the following page:

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/unite.html

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Hi,

I understand what your saying, but surely if I chose to let it go to court and then find they actually do have this evidence I will be in worse trouble?

I still can't seem to find out just how long they would needed to have followed me to register my speed - as previously said, they couldnt have been behind me at a set distance for more than a few seconds if that.

This isn't gospel, but I think VASCAR (if that's what they used) is such a simple system in principle they don't need very long. If you take five seconds to covered 205 yards the computer works that out to be 84 mph. All they need to know is where the time started from, where it stopped and the distance in between. Truvelos do the same distance/time calculation over a foot or two. Since error-prone humans have to press buttons to make the thing work I expect there's a minimum time they have to do the check over, but I think VASCAR can time you from a couple of cars back so they may have had you for much longer than you thought.
Like I said before, PePiPoo is a good place to look if you're thinking of fighting it, but you'll probably have to write, nag and be a pain in the bum to get the video evidence. If they seem reluctant to let you see it that might be 'cos somethings wrong with it. Thinking about it now, you'd have thought if the video was that sound they'd have shown it to you at the time. Maybe they only do that to show off when a film crew is with them. InGear? Is showing naughty drivers the video normal?

_________________
Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

I've been thinking about this some more and something just doesnt add up...

When the officer stepped out of the car, donned his hat and read me my rights blah blah, he said they had clocked me at 87 mph.

Without returning to his vehicle, he filled out the ticket with 84 mph (I noticed this when I got home) Both myself and my girlfriend definetly heard him say 87.

Simple mistake or just making it up

I've had a look on that site, it all seems a bit daunting and I don't think I have the time or patience to go through with an appeal - I would love to know however if they have simply called my bluff!

Watch them goalposts go!
Maybe they have called your bluff. You don't say when this happened but there is a clock ticking away so any action you want to take had better be quick. If you think something fishy is going on, then you should talk to an expert, preferably a solicitor who specializes in motoring cases. PePiPoo might be able to help you find one if you mail them, or you might get one with half an hour spent Googling. People do beat tickets on technicalities or because people have screwed up. It's not the same, but my wife had a parking ticket chucked out because the gonad who wrote it out said she was parked in a road that didn't exist. In your case what they told you didn't match the ticket, and you never got to see the video. I don't know if that's legit or not, but it seems a bit strange. Just don't go in front of the beaks saying "Look, this proves I was only doing 78mph" or any other illegal speed, as I doubt that'll impress them.

_________________
Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein