Safe Speed Forums

Remember a while back when I mentioned about the dangerous junction at the end of my road?

Tonight a stupid woman in a Golf came flying over the hill and hit the rear of my local take-away delivery car which was turning out. Fortunately no-one was seriously hurt but the road was blocked for a while as the Police and Ambulance attended. There's two wonderful lines of rubber on the road coming from where the road turns the blind corner. Both cars are total write-offs.

I knew it would happen, people just don't obey the signs. And there are plenty. I don't know what the solution is! Put a no-right turn sign up? People will ignore it! Hopefully now the junction will be evaluated properly by safety engineers.

I reckon a camera would sort it out......

I actually think it might, you know. It's a genuinely dangerous place. No, they'd much rather put them up on the widest part of the 3 lane A road just 2 miles away.

How long are the marks?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

There is always the possibility that this lady came flying over the hill at a speed that was within the posted limit, but inappropriate for the circumstances i.e. should have eased off due to the "dead ground" concealed by said hill. Cameras don't cover this, good driving does.

No, I'm afraid not biker. She was travelling with both excessive and inappropriate speed in this case. The thing that worries me about this case is that there are already plenty of warnings, which were ignored. You can educate someone to the hilt, but they may choose not to learn.

Paul, the visible skid marks look to be about 50 feet long - they get rather faint towards the impact point and it was a cold night, possibly with a film of ice so the actual skid could have been longer.

If it had been a good dry road, then a 50ft skid mark would pertain to a speed of approx 32mph.
However, it has to be borne in mind that the only reason the skid mark stopped was because she collided with another vehicle. Had she not collided with anything, then the skid marks would probably be a lot longer (which does indeed indicate excessive speed).

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

36.5mph > 0mph would leave 50 foot marks at 0.9g in the dry and on the flat.

40mph > 16 mph would also leave 50 foot marks at 0.9g in the dry and on the flat.

16mph is actually quite a big impact, so we might reasonably and initially assess pre-braking speed at roughly 40mph (if the road was dry and flat).

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I'd say about right in your estimate.

How to prevent? You say there are lots of warning signs which she apparently ignored. over a blind brow approaching a T-junction? ..is she local? How long has she been driving? How old is she?

If she failed to notice that many signs .. I'd have had her eyesight checked... we 've done that a few times when investigating... amazing how may fail this test....

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

The lady was in her early to mid 30s by my estimate. I can't honestly see any other valid reason for the crash other than inappropriate speed.

Nah, can't possibly be -- Sheila's Wheels have convinced me that women make the safest drivers.

Don't even go there! Night time, My friend who is female single 41, was on an unfamlier streight-ish road in the new forest at night behind some one driving on dipped beam. three cars overtook her. she decided that it was a duel carriagway and poodled past only to meet an oncoming camper van They scraped past each other at speed both written off at a total £8k.
she renews her protected girlie insurance at £200 a year

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

I know what you mean about the insurance aspect Anton.

As for the advert itself, boy does that tune grate on me.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

It's a couple of decades ago but I made exactly that mistake in very similar circumstances. The leader in the "inside" lane on dip, a local (who obviously knew the road) took us both, whacking up his lights as he did so, so out I went. Saw something in the distance but rapidly closing. The fastard who had passed me kept his lights up just long enough for me to realise that the one coming was on our carriageway. I awoke to the situation and got back in, in plenty of time as it happened, but it made me start concentrating properly again. If I'd proceded with the overtake I'd have almost certainly made it but I'd have had to close up dramatically onto the fatsard who had about 4 - 5 seconds of clearance.

Perhaps one of those big mirrors that let you see around the corner would have helped prevent this accident.

An 18 year old student from my son's school met his death just over the brow of this hill this morning, on his way to school. His Peugeot 106 was in collision with a Freelander and a minibus.
The road which is the main route in and out of Windermere was closed from 9.15 am until after 1.00pm.
BBC report here
Locally, the rumoured cause appears to be that one of the vehicles was still passing at the brow of the hill, and had not merged.
The Peugeot was presumably travelling towards the point where the pictures above were taken. [EDIT] Not the case, HE was travelling to college in Kendal with friends in an accompanying car. The Freelander was heading in the opposite direction to the pictures, around the bend.
Whatever the final outcome of the investigation, it is sad that Bannerigg has claimed a victim after so many near misses.
It stems from a poorly thought out road layout, which tempts drivers into attempting what turn out to be reckless manouvres.
I cannot imagine speed played any great part at this time of morning - the road is NSL, and although the Peugeot would have been approaching a bend with a 30 mph advisory, traffic at this time of the day is usually close to that - and indeed, if vehicles slow from NSL to 30 mph, bunching occurs which pushes the slow point backwards.
There is no advisory speed for the bend for traffic travelling in the direction in which the pictures were taken - nor would any be necessary.
However traffic DOES need to be on the correct side of the road, BEFORE rounding the righthand bend at the brow of this hill.
I am extremely saddened that somebody had payed the ultimate price when a few changes could have made the road safer.
No doubt drivers will be cautious for a week or two, before those with pressing reasons to push the envelope return to their old ways once more.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Ian H made a post some time ago on this stretch of road HERE

Yesterdays accident occured just to the right of the last G in the word Bannerigg on Ian's map.

I noticed passing this morning within a few minutes of the time of the accident that eastbound vehicles would have had the sun in their eyes, which was strong yesterday and today. However it does not prevent proper positioning on the road, or the view of the double white lines.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!