Safe Speed Forums

What is the law, if any, that states what level of visibility
is acceptable for a number plate?

I am talking about dirty number plates only here, NOT
those with italic and calligraphy! JUST dirty plates OK!

Like the time I saw a BMW 7 series with dirt covering the
back number plate so much that you could not make out
any of the numbers or letters - I have seen countless cars
like this and always say to my mate I am driving with, if I
were a cop, it is those drivers I would fine the maximum
I possibly could. Speeding is one thing but to actually not
really have a number plate, because it is 100% obscured
by dirt, is a far more serious offnce as far as I can see.

Think about it, with a dirty number plate you can zoom past
speed camera after speed camera, at any speed you want,
it just makes me MAD! Because I know, when cops pull over
a 7 series BMW the atmosphere is very different to what it
would be if the car was a Fiesta with a 18 to 30 year old
driving.

A middle class bloke with suit and tie in a beamer with dirty
number plates is NEVER going to get much of a fine but honestly,
these are fast powerful cars, that particular BMW I saw was weaving
in and out of traffic like Nigel Mansell, then as it went past I saw his
100% blacked-out-with-dirt number plate.

The best thing to do I think, is sneak up to the back of their car
at the lights and clean the plate. Don't let them see you, then they
can go blasting through all the speed cameras thinking it can't
see the plate. I would love to make a documentary and film it!
There have been plenty of times where I could have done this.

Even the flashing of the camera would not deter these people
IF their plate is totally covered with dirt. I cannot STAND drivers
like that. What if they hit someone and drove off? How the hell
are you supposed to identify the car and why the hell do these
people just seem to get away with having dirty plates? I mean,
so dirty that you cannot see the numbers AT ALL?

If these people do get pulled up about it I bet they are only
told to clean their plate, that is ridiculous! Think how long has
their licence plate BEEN LIKE THAT? How many miles have they
done with NO plate? I would really throw the book at these
obnoxious drivers. They ALWAYS have expensive cars and
believe me if I was cop they would be paying full whack for
this, it is treated so lightly, but why? It is FAR worse than
speeding! For all the reasons I just said.

Sorry I type so much! Here is the main question then:

What are the laws to punish drivers with number plates that
are plastered in dirt so the plate is completely unreadable?

Just as well you ain't old bill then with an attitude like that.

Your post above reads more like somebody who is pissed off that someone else can afford a car that you can't.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

Actually - you dont have to be able to afford the car - just the re-payments!
My present car is three years old (this week) and is costing me the same as my previous seven year old car.... per month. It's going to be costing over a longer period though.

Yesterday I went into Kendal in appalling conditions to pick up my car after it's MOT. I had cleaned it prior to the test, filled the washer bottle etc. and ensured the spare wheel was accessible.
By the time I had picked it up, and got back to work (having gone to recover my wife's car which she had been forced to abandon at a remote farm!) my number plate WAS unrecogniseable - as was most of the car.
Since the temperature was down to minus 9° C last night, there was no way I was going to wash it and risk being frozen out this morning - likewise tonight, so like you GIXXER, I am so glad LeveL is not the kind considerate face of the law we have here in Cumbria!!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Thanks, you're so helpful. Thanks for answering my question.

You didn't read the title of this topic? I am pissed off
with the dirty number plates and lack of law on the issue.

Since my post asks the question at the start and end of the
post (in fact I even put the quesion in bold) you obviously
can't have even read the post?

Why would owing money to some credit firm for the
next 10 years for a car that does 20 miles to a gallon
be something for me to lust after of be pissed off that
I have not got? Come on, wake up eh?

Obnoxious Audi, BMW, Mercedes drivers who drive
like you should get out of their way, skinny little pricks
who drive round in 850CSi's with the door locked undertaking
everyone... you're damn right they piss me off, for buying into
the illusion of expensive frigging cars or even the illusion that
you ever OWN the thing.

If you won the lottery and paid cash outright £30,000, or £60,000
or upwards for a 3 year old car then fine, but people do not take
on a car these days - they take on a DEBT in 99 of 100 cases.

Driving a BMW is cool and hey, everyone should get out of YOUR
way because you have a more expensive car, but not when you
can't afford fuel because you're paying some credit company off!

Taking money from poor people for every little reason
whilst "respected" rich people do not even get punished, is just
another fraction, another thing, that has killed our once respectable
society.

Since no one has answered this then I assume there
is no law against dirty number plates?

Expensive cars? Jealousy? Get outta here!

Whatever you own - ends up owning you

LeveL, try H Code Rule 204 - (driving in adverse weather conditions) - "You MUST ensure that lights and number plates are clean"

What does this mean in practice? Like Ernest, I got caught in a blizzard yesterday - front number plate covered very quickly in snow. Am i required to stop, literally every 2 minutes (regardless of safety...) to clear the number plate? - Cant see the number plate anyway from inside the car - so stop and check if it's clear just in case?

Mud on the plates tends to accumulate over a period of time (unless you live in the middle of a field )

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That's how Nazi Germany started. They'll be burning books next. (Brian Noble, Wigan coach - updated 20/4/06!!).

No, my original point is dirty plates in ANY conditions.

It is actually winter and grit on the road that causes this,
but I am talking about DRY conditions in perfect visibility,
there are cars with plates that cannot be read. They don't
clean it off, ever.

No indeed. The "Construction & Use" Regulations apply at any time, in any weather conditions.

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That's how Nazi Germany started. They'll be burning books next. (Brian Noble, Wigan coach - updated 20/4/06!!).

I think I'd like to see the language and hatred of other motorists toned down here a bit. This site always struck me as a level headed place that generally didn't stoop to slagging off other road user groups because we didn't always agree with them.
stay civil or please go away.

I don't intend to clean my numberplates because the dirtier they are the less chance I have of being caught for "speeding". Cleaning theem feels wrong. It's like I'm trying to get caught

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Andrew.

I understand that in some places the mix used to grit now has something like molasses added, to make it stickier.

I guess that there are at least two factors here: the design of the rear of the car and the makeup of what is put on the road.

Sounds like you need one of those cans of spray on dirt in case the real stuff ever gets dislodged!!

You cannot blame the police for not chasing down dirty plates - after all, they are facing diminishing numbers, as robotic enforcement is employed to not just save money - but to make a surplus.

Chances are if the drivers LeveL describes act as he alleges, then eventually they will get pulled over - at least for the standard of driving, if not the dirty plates.


Am I one of these drivers you are describing? - Whilst I am not skinny, my car is financed because it suits my business and tax arrangements. It's also not a BMW - but the principle is the same is it not?
I also dont waste money on the lottery - linning the pockets of Camelot's investors and the Government, for just a very small return for good causes is not good sense, so it's finance for me!
If I wish to support a good cause, I simply would give them the money - all of it, not just the 5% or whatever the figure is!

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Surely dirty numberplates is another issue where a few more traffic police might come in handy - although possibly they would have better things to do.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Ist filthiest weather - washed car the other day und ist dirty again. Ist something which cannot be avoided on most journey at moment grit mix with molasses ist sticky... und car wash? It ices over und become lethal to use if you use the jet wash und if you use the automatic one.. can damage the car ..





Ist a £30 fine for failure to display properly... because this ist what you get for plate not being visible. If plate had dropped off - ist an anomalie in law of no fine I think... ist from memory of what Strassen over the road said once

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Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

There are responsible drivers, in cars like Evo's,
all the time. These are not "prestigious" cars. The
owners of these cars seem to drive cars like this
responsibly.

In any outside lane on any motorway you will see
Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar, Porsche, catch my drift?
These are luxury cars with a prestigious badge and
all cost more than an Evo.

It is these expensive powerful cars and their drivers
that are known to cut people up and drive in an arrogant
way because they are driving an expensive, luxurious,
prestigious car. It is the attitude I am pointing out.

I am not saying people getting these types of cars
are all idiots, how could I say that? I am saying that
with any credit agreement, plus the loss straight away
with a brand new car, it makes me laugh to think people
are proud of what they "own". I am afraid the bank owns
YOU but hey, they own the Earth so, its not like any of us
can help that but, individual people take these debts on
to buy these cars and really, it amazes me, the illusion
of it.

A BMW 850CSi cost £83,000 around 1995. Now, eleven years
on, they are worth £6000 at the most. I bet there are people
probably STILL paying the finance off for one of those.

You work it out

Sorry about any swearing, yes I was swearing and ranting, sorry

I expect the vast majority were originally bought as company cars.

If someone chooses to buy a used high-end BMW rather than a new Focus, good luck to them

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Funny I was going to say in my neck of the woods I'm happy to see an Audi behind me, most of the Audi drivers around here seem to be quite precise, careful, considerate drivers.

As for the finance that can apply to all cars - took out a car via Yes Car Credit (I know, I know, but I needed a car couldn't afford it out right and having just been made redundant my credit rating was in the cellar) cost me more than it should have done all things being fair but it gave me the safe, reliable transport I needed to go job hunting.

LeveL, some of your posts are quite thought provoking but you do seem a bit intense, you come across as a angry/grumpy old man.

We are a fairly laid back bunch here (most of the time), I'd liken the forum as a comfy local where you can have a beer and a chat with other like minded patrons, occasionally you get the odd rambling drunk (aka the trolls) but for the most part things go smoothly, the 'putting the world to rights' chats are on the soapbox forum.

Another beer anyone ??

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

I'm not even 30 yet!

I often find everyone reacts differently to what I say but
yes, swearing and being "intense" is out of order.

I guess intense in that, I bring my BS here, thats all
Everywhere I go it follows me.

I quit drinking ages ago but, I know its probably just
every day people here etc, what else could I expect!

I can try to add my own experiences of driving, the stupid
things I have seen in the last 12 years etc, just not in the
ranting style, or if I am really mad about something (hey
its corruption anyway not dirty number plates!) I shall
try to keep my mythology out and whatever might be
a useful concept (for "genuine road safety") in.

I have to ask this - did this forum start because of
speed cameras or would it have just started anyway
for road safety. Or, what is more important, trying to at
least cut down these cameras or road safety in general?

The harm is done though I think, because 2005 saw the end
of the camera installations. Now £300,000,000 and 12,000
cameras, everyone is opinionated in some way over these
cameras. Even if you don't drive.

It can only be good then, that a forum is dedicated to
providing a place where all professionals and the public
can meet to discuss what the reality of it is, E.G. peoples
own experiences with whats dangerous and that might be
not getting dealt with in BabyLondon. Sorry but to ask me
to explain BabyLondon, would take a rant all of its own

"The system" is now heavily dependent on number plate recognition, and this level of dependency will increase.
In order to "read" a number plate, the equipment requires that the characters are clear and unobstructed, in a certain layout, and of a certain font type and size.

An educated guess says that you will get away with an amount of dirt/grime that can be attributed to that journey, to a max of "24hrs-worth".

And, as I mentioned in another thread: "number-plate offences" WILL become endorsable. Dedicated "pursuit squads" of police bikes/cars will be at strategic points ready to chase and apprehended anyone seen contravening the requirements.

I gave up work to run Safe Speed full time about 3 years ago mainly because of this: http://www.safespeed.org.uk/fatality.html . Probably without that the forums would not have started.

If policy wasn't 'bad' we wouldn't have lost the fatal accident rate trend, and if it hadn't been for speed cameras, I don't believe policy would have been bad.

So it's all a bit linked. If we had continued to enjoy good road safety policy the forum wouldn't be needed.

I started the web site in 2001 as a hobby activity because responsible drivers were suffering disproportionate penalties from some minor speeding offences (loss of licence, job, home, marriage). I didn't think that was justice, but I had no idea that speed cameras were indirectly killing us in large numbers until the end of 2002.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Unless the conditions are exceptional, then I do think it is quite a serious offence to have a knowingly obscured numberplate. What if the car in question commited a more serious offence then a few mph over the limit? How would people on here feel if someone bumped your car (in a car park, say) and you or any witnesses couldn't get the registration mark because it was obscured. What if it was even more serious like a hit and run?