Safe Speed Forums

The campaign for genuine road safety
It is currently Sun Apr 19, 2026 18:03

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:38 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 06:46
Posts: 16903
Location: Safe Speed
Last night they had Hampshire's traffic cops crowing for 30 minutes about 'section 165' vehicle seizure powers. (Must look that up).

They were seizing and sometimes crushing vehicles of cars that appeared to be uninsured or cars of drivers that appeared to be unlicenced.

I'm really happy to see illegal drivers off the road, but this scheme is just a big bluff. For example, they said (proudly!) that they had seized 1,100 vehciles since the scheme had been running. If we guess that was over a year, then with 50 police forces they can seize 55,000 cars in a year nationally. How is that supposed to dent 2 million uninsured drivers?

The risk to an uninsured drivers is something like ONCE IN 36 YEARS!

As far as I can guess, uninsured driving is GROWING at a rate of at least 100,000 per annum. They can't even keep up with the growth!

This is not Policing as I know it and respect it. It's bluff, bullshit and threat. And it's even marginal if it's legal for them to seize a vehicle because it may amount to a criminal penalty applied without trial.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:06 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 09:59
Posts: 3544
Location: Shropshire
Yea, this was shown down here a few weeks back.

I thought the same thing actually, Mr/Mrs/Miss Oxythief will simply go out and get themselves another throwaway.
FWIW I think the police and other authorites are just scratching at the surface of the problematic social attitudes that lead to this and other sorts of anti-social behaviour. They do a reasonable job but they are faced with issues occuring on a large scale by people who don't give a shit.

BTW, wait for the episode where PC Thick of the Hampshire constabulary is sent to attend an incident involving a burger van and a food delivery truck. :lol: The burger van hatch has flown open and embeddd itself in the cargo cab of the delivery truck tearing it completely off the burger van in the process; the burger van is parked a dozen or so yards up the road behind the delivery truck.
Our cerebaly challenged hero thinks that only one vehicle has been involved and that the hatch sticking out of the food delivery truck at a jaunty angle is actually a part of that vehicle. He doesn't consider it important that underneath the 'hatch' if were closed would be the side of the van :roll:


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:34 
Offline
User

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:33
Posts: 770
Location: Earith, Cambs
Picking up on Paul's suggestion of illegality in seizure, maybe we come back to the Bill of Rights where fines and forfeitures without a court appearance ('petition to the Monarch?') are void and illegal - or something like that.
Imagine a challenge and a judicial review AFTER the crushing of a vehicle with all the attendant costs and damages!
That would make them think a bit!
What will the 'Dail Wail' make of this?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:53 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:52
Posts: 947
Location: falkirk
i think crushing is a bit harsh. if there is nothing more than lack of insurance or licence, isnt it a waste of money? surely the police could make a bit of revenue by selling the vehicle rather than crushing it? it still leaves the offender out of pocket which is the lesson to be learned is it not?

_________________
Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 13:06 
Offline
User

Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 15:14
Posts: 420
Location: Aberdeenshire
Crushing a perfectly servicable vehicle is just cutting your nose off to spite your face.

The vehicle is usable. I can be scavenged for parts and scrapped.

What they hell does crushing it into a useless cube achieve?



The UK's Police Force are fast becoming an embarrassment to a supposedly educated country.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 13:10 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:52
Posts: 947
Location: falkirk
its always the Scots looking at the money we could save :lol: :lol: :lol:

_________________
Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 14:01 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 16:34
Posts: 923
Location: UK
jamie_duff wrote:
Crushing a perfectly servicable vehicle is just cutting your nose off to spite your face.


They don't crush them all, only vehicles below a certain value or which are seriously unroadworthy are crushed. Crushing is used as an idle threat to those who actually value those cars, even though they are at little or no risk.

Gareth


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 16:07 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 06:46
Posts: 16903
Location: Safe Speed
g_attrill wrote:
Crushing is used as an idle threat to those who actually value those cars, even though they are at little or no risk.


Exactly. Bluff.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 16:44 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 18:41
Posts: 893
SafeSpeed wrote:
Last night they had Hampshire's traffic cops crowing for 30 minutes about 'section 165' vehicle seizure powers. (Must look that up).

http://www.dorset.police.uk/news/displa ... 1140517058

alternatively, a swift Google.co.uk for "section 165 vehicle" produces the SI and other stuff from OPSI etc.

From the Dorset plod page quoted above:
Quote:
Sergeant Jim Beashel from Dorset Police’s Road Policing Unit based at Ferndown, said: “Section 165 of the Road Traffic Act means that if police officers suspect that a vehicle has been driven without a driving licence or insurance - and the driver fails to provide the necessary evidence at the roadside - then the driver will be required to hand the keys over to the officers and the vehicle will be seized and taken to a storage facility.

“If the driver disputes the existence of insurance, or their driving licence, contact will be made with their insurance company from the roadside to resolve the matter.

“If the driver is not the registered keeper the police will send a notice to the registered keeper to inform them that their vehicle has been seized, however, it is important to stress that we will only seize vehicles belonging to those drivers who do not hold a licence or valid insurance for the vehicle.

“The driver then has 14 days in which to arrange for the correct documents to be taken to a police station.

Sergeant Beashel continued: “If we are satisfied that the documents provided by the driver at the police station are in order, then a form - given to the driver by the police officer when the vehicle was seized - will be stamped. The driver is then permitted to pick up the vehicle once any recovery and storage costs are settled.

“The driver is required to pay £12 per day for every day the vehicle is left in storage. In addition, the driver will be required to pay a recovery cost of £105.


Hold on a minute - by their own admission over 70% of DVLA records contain at least one error. The police suspect that the driver is uninsured, has no license, etc. and seize the vehicle. After running around for a few days which can involve loss of earnings and other consequential damages, the driver proves the police's assumption wrong and still has to pay for storage and recovery :shock:

IMO, this won't happen very often but when it does the police should be obliged to apologise and compensate the innocent victim that they have wrongfully penalised.

Hopefully someone will be brave enough to challenge this under ECHR or the Bill of Rights (having looked at the SI, I can't see an explicit setting aside of the protection from penalty without trial).

_________________
Will


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 17:17 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 14:26
Posts: 4364
Location: Hampshire/Wiltshire Border
Quote:
... if police officers suspect that a vehicle has been driven without a driving licence or insurance - and the driver fails to provide the necessary evidence at the roadside


Quote:
If the driver disputes the existence of insurance, or their driving licence, contact will be made with their insurance company from the roadside to resolve the matter.


I wonder how they would do this? ANPR style lookup with the above mentioned errors? Phone the insurance company at midnight?

Suppose I am driving my mother-in-law's car which has me as an additional driver on the insurance policy. I am not the keeper or the insured. I don't carry my driving licence with me. I can't remember which company she insures with. Will the car be seized just on suspicion?

A minefield of trouble.

_________________
Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 19:28 
Offline
User

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 09:01
Posts: 1548
malcolmw wrote:
Suppose I am driving my mother-in-law's car which has me as an additional driver on the insurance policy. I am not the keeper or the insured. I don't carry my driving licence with me. I can't remember which company she insures with. Will the car be seized just on suspicion?

A minefield of trouble.

It's not a minefield at all.

I was pulled last week driving the old lady's Mondeo (registered in her name).
Now I have a traders policy in my own name, but this does not relate to any particular vehicle so it cannot be checked up at the roadside unless a physical phone call is made to the broker/insurance company.

However I am a named driver on the old lady's private policy, and a simple vehicle check revealed that both the old lady & myself are covered to drive that particular vehicle (on the old lady's insurance policy which is with Norwich Union).

_________________
What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 20:17 
Offline
User

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 16:24
Posts: 322
Just a quick note, last night's episode was in Cheshire rather than Hampshire for some reason.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 20:19 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 06:46
Posts: 16903
Location: Safe Speed
sotonsteve wrote:
Just a quick note, last night's episode was in Cheshire rather than Hampshire for some reason.


'Twas deffo Hampshire shown in Scotland.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 21:18 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 00:15
Posts: 5232
Location: Windermere
The Daily Mail featured a driver who had his recently purchased 4x4 crushed, because the DVLA had not got the documents transfered.
The vehicle had cost him over £5,000, and he was claiming for consequential loss etc. etc. and looking for £10,000 damages.

Surely crushing such a servicable vehicle is environmentally unsound!!

Mind you I dont think they give two hoots about the environment, except to let people THINK they do.
How come we dont have household battery disposal points like the French do in their supermarkets!

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 21:39 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 21:17
Posts: 3734
Location: Dorset/Somerset border
[quote="Jamie Duff]I can be scavenged for parts and scrapped.[/quote]

Come now Jamie, you're a young man with many productive years ahead of you. :roll:


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.063s | 11 Queries | GZIP : Off ]