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mpaton2004
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 23:37 
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5039326.stm

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Left turns at red lights proposed

The plan is based on the US where drivers can turn right at red lights
Drivers should be able to turn left at red lights in a bid to ease congestion, the Conservatives have proposed.

The Tories' economic competitiveness policy group has put forward the idea as part of a 10-point transport plan.

Other schemes include new carriageways and underpasses, removing "dangerous" cycle paths and widening junctions and lanes around large roundabouts.

The Tories stress the proposals by the group, one of several set up by leader David Cameron, are not party policy.

Interim thinking

The traffic light idea is based on practice in the US where motorists are allowed to turn right at red signals.

The group also suggests rephasing traffic lights to give priority to main roads, putting cycle lanes on pavements where there is room, letting taxis and motorbikes use bus lanes, providing more pedestrian footbridges and underpasses, and reviewing speed limits.

The proposals are the party's "interim thinking" on how transport could be improved.

Chairman of the policy group, John Redwood, will unveil the suggestions on a visit to Barnet in north London on Friday.


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johnsher
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 00:02 
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The group also suggests ... putting cycle lanes on pavements where there is room

...

The proposals are the party's "interim thinking" on how transport could be improved.



and they were doing so well...
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Ziltro
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 01:29 
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Turn left on red would make roundabout traffic lights interesting...

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guron83
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 08:02 
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It's a good idea in theory and would be good if it had been introduced right back at the beginning. However I'd be reluctant to start making major changes to the way traffic lights work now - I wouldn't trust left-on-red drivers to give way to pedestrians for one thing!
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anton
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 09:17 
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It is nice to see thinking outside the box (or blinkers)
I support this but fear that people might abuse the right to merge.

There is already a lot of motorists who think they should merge onto a roundabout rather than give way and they ignore you if you are trying to move to the outside lane to exit.

Our junctions are gerneraly becoming a fudged priority. rather than the main road having the right of way.

we used to have a motoway of solid lanes and to turn off you have to turn left off lane 1.
Now it chops and changes name and you constantly need to be in lane 2 to stay on the motorway.

I fear that traffic lights on trunk roads will slow down the trunk road as left turners merge in.

of course it will make red light cameras futile... LOL

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Dusty
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 09:37 
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Re Left on Red

How about a flashing green filter arrow when and where this is permitted.

The idea being that the flashing light indicated that you may proceed if clear to do so but to be aware that you do *not* have right of way and still have to watch out for other traffic and pedestrians.

On another note. What do peole think about access controll?

(IE Lights on motorway slip roads to prevent traffic joining the main road unless there is capacity to carry it in order to keep the traffic flowing)

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balrog
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:29 
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Dusty wrote:
Re Left on Red

How about a flashing green filter arrow when and where this is permitted.

The idea being that the flashing light indicated that you may proceed if clear to do so but to be aware that you do *not* have right of way and still have to watch out for other traffic and pedestrians.

On another note. What do peole think about access controll?

(IE Lights on motorway slip roads to prevent traffic joining the main road unless there is capacity to carry it in order to keep the traffic flowing)


I believe the french have a system with a flashing amber light light that means proceed at your own risk. Its really useful in the middle of nowhere (and the french do have a lot more middle of nowhere than us, thats why its such a nice place :) ) when you can see the road is clear. In the UK you would have to wait 5 minutes. Still you cagers could read another chapter of Harry Potter in that time :evil: :evil: :twisted: :twisted:
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guron83
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:45 
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Apparently some traffic lights at night in this country default to rest-on-red operation - i.e. red from all directions, change to green only when a vehicle approaches, which is a more clear instruction than flashing amber.

I've yet to experience this though!
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handy
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:49 
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anton wrote:
we used to have a motoway of solid lanes and to turn off you have to turn left off lane 1.
Now it chops and changes name and you constantly need to be in lane 2 to stay on the motorway.


I don't think that is a good enough reason for the central lane owners club. It's not too difficult to keep left until you need to move out (not too difficult, that is, if you are able to look beyond your own bonnet).

[edited to add - in deference to this site - or able to look beyond your own speedo!]

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Last edited by handy on Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:57, edited 1 time in total.

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balrog
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:54 
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handy wrote:
anton wrote:
we used to have a motoway of solid lanes and to turn off you have to turn left off lane 1.
Now it chops and changes name and you constantly need to be in lane 2 to stay on the motorway.


I don't think that is a good enough reason for the central lane owners club. It's not too difficult to keep left until you need to move out (not too difficult, that is, if you are able to look beyond your own bonnet).


And while I am on about France, I believe they will award points for driving in the left lane/lanes and not overtaking and for speeding up while being overtaken. French with more common sense than British? I am off outside; flying pigs are due at any minute
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handy
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:56 
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balrog wrote:
handy wrote:
anton wrote:
we used to have a motoway of solid lanes and to turn off you have to turn left off lane 1.
Now it chops and changes name and you constantly need to be in lane 2 to stay on the motorway.


I don't think that is a good enough reason for the central lane owners club. It's not too difficult to keep left until you need to move out (not too difficult, that is, if you are able to look beyond your own bonnet).


And while I am on about France, I believe they will award points for driving in the left lane/lanes and not overtaking and for speeding up while being overtaken. French with more common sense than British? I am off outside; flying pigs are due at any minute


when it comes to motorways I think the French do have better ideas - the one I like is "keeping your indicator on if you are overtaking a line of traffic but will pull back in" as opposed to "I am now occupying this lane". I think it helps defuse potential road rage opportunities.

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balrog
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:23 
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handy wrote:
when it comes to motorways I think the French do have better ideas - the one I like is "keeping your indicator on if you are overtaking a line of traffic but will pull back in" as opposed to "I am now occupying this lane". I think it helps defuse potential road rage opportunities.


I think they know how to overtake and how to be overtaken. I wonder if this is because they have a bigger country with more two lane motorways and A roads where overtaking happens more often? They seem to decide, get bloody well on with it then get out the way. It seems to almost verge on the 'choppy' rather than smooth but generally of a far higher quality than you would see in the UK.

I had a numpty I overtook this morning flashing her lights and beeping her horn. Not quite sure why. I overtook on the exit of a left right Z bend stayed left through the second bend to open the view. I could see for about 400M. I had planned this from before the Z where you can see the whole thing but I had to wait because you loose site of the road after the Z as you flick from left to right. I had higher speed than the 4x4, she had crawled through the bend but it looked like they ought to have been sea sick it rolled so much. I had the all the acceleration the sprint could muster. I was past her with in 15M max, gave loads of space because it was a 4x4. Maybe I woke her up?
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anton
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:32 
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Hey- I was not condoning lane 2 hogging.

I dislike the way that the principles of the uk road system are eroding.

lane dicipline,
visabillity
junction prorities
weird roundabout lanes
excessive numbers of traffic lights on roundabouts
cyclists on footpaths
pedestrian mixing with cars
to name a few

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


Last edited by anton on Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:50, edited 1 time in total.

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jamie_duff
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:43 
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I like the different speed limits for wet and dry conditions in France. At least it tries to account for differences in driving conditions.

Not sure about Turning through Red lights though. I've driven in the USA and done this, but was never quite comfortable. I suppose I'd get use to it, but for me a traffic light should be "Go" or "Stop". I'm unsure what the effects of diluting??? this Red/Green thinking would be.

Perhaps it would work? I certainly didn't crash whilst driving in America, although I was quite nervous about turning through reds.

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Johnnytheboy
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:15 
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1. What about where red lights at junctions also function as pedestrian crossings? That means red lights would have the status of a zebra crossing.

2. I agree with Jamie - it creates ambiguity. You know where you are with a red light.

3. Don't the States have system whereby the red lights flash at night, indicating you can go if it's clear :? THAT is a good idea!
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Ziltro
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 16:05 
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guron83 wrote:
Apparently some traffic lights at night in this country default to rest-on-red operation - i.e. red from all directions, change to green only when a vehicle approaches, which is a more clear instruction than flashing amber.

I've yet to experience this though!

Pretty sure there are some in Poole. (they used to make traffic lights here and I think we got all the 'new ideas')
It's great! Until one of the sensors fails..... And you know they will.

There are also a bunch of lights on a roundabout which were installed as part time lights, so they had no sensors as they worked only when there was a lot of traffic. Now they are on all the time so at night most people get to sit there getting pissed off then hooning it round to avoid getting stopped by the next set.

In France junctions often stay on flashing amber in both directions at night. In USA there are some which have flashing amber in one direction and flashing red in the other. I asume flashing red means you don't have priority. I think I prefer the French way, red and green should be reserved for definiteness.

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handy
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anton wrote:
Hey- I was not condoning lane 2 hogging.


sorry- my response was not intended to suggest that you were. I don't agree with your conjecture that it's not possible to drive in lane 1 and move out when necessary though (with the possible exception of the M42 which has a system of gantry cams and signage that seems to have been dreamt up by a sadist).

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Familyman
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 17:02 
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In the USA the right turn on red works really well, if it is not safe to do so then there is a sign over the lane which reads "no turn on red" (or something like that).

I have also experianced flashing amber to procede with caution in France and that too make a great deal of sense. Certainly more sensible than waiting at red lights at night when there are no other road users around.

The French also dont have a problem with bikers wanting to get by. Once in france on my bike I cam up to a long queue of traffic stuck behind a tractor. When the French drivers saw me approach they all moved over to the right to let me through, it was magic. Certainly beats trying to filter in this country where some drivers (BMW's & Merc's mostly) try and occupy as much road as possible to block you.

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safedriver
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 21:36 
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Cheshire CC are clearly in the lead in 'movement prevention' at traffic lights at all hours of the day or night.

On the A556 (50 mph limit), which connects the M6 (Jn 19), with the M56 (Jn 8), , I have, several times, approached the set of lights at the A50 junction at around 04.30on a Sunday morning in winter. Believe me when I tell you that it is not particularly busy at this time, in fact I am usually the only vehicle around on my way to Manchester Airport !! The lights are at GREEN on approach, and as I get close snap back to RED. I stop; nothing passes across on the other road, then they change to allow me to proceed.

Can anybody see any sense in this at all !! It is really tempting to slow down and cross slowly on Red, observing in both directions for anything coming, but as a law-abiding citizen, I don't and sit there like a dummy and wait.

Anybody here work for council traffic departments who can explain this stupidity

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anton
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 21:54 
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Quote:
The lights are at GREEN on approach, and as I get close snap back to RED


Numberplate recognition! All SS members are on a black list, or should I call it a red light list. :trafficlight: :lol:

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code
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