Safe Speed Forums

Hi all,

It's my experience that driving too slowly for the conditions (as one might when there's excessive speed enforcement) adversely affects concentration.

Many skilled drivers agree, and during most motor races the commentators mention that a driver travelling more slowly to preserve the car risks losing concentration to the point of crashing. Indeed this effect was blamed for several crashes in Grand Prix last year.

However the "anti-speed" brigade frequently suggest that it should be dangerous to increase speed to improve concentration. I expect that they do not believe in an optimal range of speed.

There does not appear to be any research into the relationship between speed and concentration. Yet this effect alone has the potential to cancel out the entire (potential) benefit of slowing the traffic.

Since the compulsory installation of 56mph limiters to heavy vehicles it appear that there might have been a very marked increase in drivers falling asleep. That does not surprise me in the least.

Your thoughts, ladies and gentlemen?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I certainly find myself relaxing a bit more and listening to the radio when traffic is moving slowly. People also seem to bunch up more, maybe getting a warm feeling of safety from everybody moving at the same speed.

On motorways and trunk route dual carriageways, I almost invariably select a speed which is a bit faster than the majority of the traffic. I feel uncomfortable sitting in a convoy of many other vehicles all travelling at the same speed as I feel this may lead to reduced attention and forward observation. Conversely, if I am regularly overtaking other traffic, the attention needed for safe lane changing, anticipation of other vehicles etc helps me to stay focused on the driving task.

On a free flowing motorway, I find an indicated speed of about 85mph will generally provided a reasonably speed differential, allowing slower traffic to be passsed reasonably briskly but not at a speed differential so great that avoiding action or braking would be made unduly hazardous if the unexpected happens. This also happens to be a speed which, although technically illegal, does not make one too conspicuous to trafpol. Of course, cameras on bridges present a more difficult problem.

I do find that there are many more cars travelling at the sort of speed I usually select than there were (say) 10-15 years ago. Have average speeds on motorways increased? I think they probably have although have no objective evidence. This does mean, I suppose, that in order to "keep out" of the crowd, I may have to increase (or decrease) my preferred target speed.

Can identify with much of Observer's post! Faster speeds and more continual overtaking does require greater concentration - and thus gives adrenalin burst which prevents boredom and subsequent drowsiness.

Find that concentration levels tend to be sharper when we are on unlimited stretches of German A-bahn - perhaps because you know margins are sharper at speed.

Again - there is perhaps less bunching - so you are able to concentrate and anticipate the vehicles ahead more easily. We have noticed that you seem to see more bunching, jamming and accidents occurring on Germany's limited stretches than on the unlimited stretches.

Also wife showed me remark passed by a PHer saying that he always felt more alert on return to UK from Germany because of the faster speeds allowed over there!

Also vaguely remember reading that Italian PM increased speed limit on Iti motorways - passing remark that he would prefer his drivers to "stay alert"! (Apparently there have been less "incidente" since it was increased by 10mph!)

UK? Not good idea to exceed 75mph around M6 stretch - Lakes down to Preston as talivans are nearly always on the bridges!

But on average, would say Observer is correct when he says more cars seem to travel at 85mph than previously. Perhaps this is because these vehicles are more powerful and more comfortable?

If find exactly the same thing. I think I'm most alert when driving on German motorways. I've also learnt a lot from them too and apply my experiences on UK motorways.

In Finland they are currently reducing the already slow limits on many roads and I do find traveling at under 70km/h on a wide 3 lane semi-motorway with little traffic very boring and the concentration does start to wonder since you can't help but start to think what could possibly go wrong these these speeds.

Australia recently reduced their residential area speed limit from 60 kph (37 mph) to 50 kph (31 mph), but reaction is mixed:

Local Road Safety Committee chairperson Peter Harden said there were good and bad points to the speed reduction.
He said while on one hand it slowed many drivers down, it also made them lack concentration because they were, in fact, driving so slow.
"Any slowing of traffic speeds will aid safety in the community ... but now people are noticing if their next door neighbor has a new pot-plant on the verandah, because they have time to look around while they're driving - this makes them lose concentration," he said.
"Most accidents happen within five kilometres of your own home because this is where people feel comfortable driving.
"So it goes both ways because if you're going a bit faster you have to concentrate."

http://murraybridge.yourguide.com.au/de ... y=2004&m=3

This is a very interesting article about the dangers of the 56mph limiter. I have to say that I was against them before reading this, but now regard them actually as a definite menace!

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-mike[F]
Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..

I think that there are 2 aspects to this

1) When driving and fully alert, are you more likely to lose concentration when having to drive more slowly than the situation dictates. eg 70 mph on, empty clear, dry motorway?

2) When driving tired (and knowing you're tired). Are you better off for concentration to drive slower, knowing your reactions are affected?, or slightly faster to try and force some adrenalin to wake you up.

I'm not giving opinion here - just looking for clarification.

There are only two Cumbria vans, though, and their web site tells you where they'll be. The thing I'm more worried about is all the gatsos around the roadworks between Carnforth and Lancaster. What's the betting that although they were put in to make sure people stay at 50 in the roadworks, they'll remain behind afterwards? It's also very worrying seeing people come screaming down the outside lane at 60-65, see the camera, and slam on their brakes! I drive through the whole thing at 50-53 but I seem to be the slowest thing on the road some of the time! Either the cameras aren't working, or they're making a hell of a lot of money...

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-mike[F]
Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..

I can only speak for myself, but yes.



Again, I can only speak for myself, but I don't think I get too much adrenalin by going a little bit faster. But I might speed up a little so I don't have to drive tired for so long. If I'm doing a long distance trip I prefer to stop off somewhere for a nap in the car and a good shot of coffee afterwards. So if I can safely cut the time before I can do that by speeding up, then I often will. Luckily I don't have to do much long distance driving any more, so it's a lot easier to plan things so I don't have to drive tired.

Which is exactly why cruise control is the most underused feature on my car. Does anyone else here think that cruise is almost useless most of the time? Let's make the car do some of my thinking for me, 70mph <click> there we go, Pink Floyd on the stereo, wheeeee, whatever happened to Sid Barrett anyway, hmmm what shall I have for dinner tonight, think there's some steak in the freezBANGCRUNCHSPLAT. These days the only time mine gets any use at all is if I've got a clear motorway ahead of me and an unmarked ploice car behind me. Winds 'em up no end.

Yo Mike

We know about the Cumbrian "twins" and where they will be!

Lancashire - different twazaks! Also the unmarked cars are prowling up and down that stretch - as it has history of "speeding!"

Like Gatsobait ( you sound our kind of chap! You said most of what I was gonna say - so I will just add "WAY TO GO!" - agree with most of the points you have raised so far!)

Like I said on another thread (think it was to the Evil Inked Up One ) - we tend not to use the Cruise Control - unless of course the unmarked chaps are behind us!


However, we do plan our journeys and never drive "tired or ill or "under the weatherl" (WildCat, my wife, was hit by chap taken ill at the wheel - on a motorway! He hit her at speed - (80mph into stationary car in jam - he went through his windscreen and through her rear window! ) and she did go through hell for two years! But she's fully recovered now!)

Heh, I'd perhaps better take a bit more care then :/ Was driving home (only juncts 34-36 on the motorway, mind you) at 1pm today, utterly deserted, 90-95 most of the way.. Got home in record time but I dunno if it's worth the risk of a ticket and losing my licence if the road is notorious?

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-mike[F]
Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..

I would like to gather some opinion on this matter, so I have set up a poll.

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=117

I have tried to word it very carefully, but if anyone can see a glaring error, I might well delete it and start again.

I intend to use the results in a letter to sleep researchers, and possibly in a new Safe Speed page. Please don't answer if you are not an experienced driver or if you are unsure about any effect on you personally.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I am not going to vote as I am unsure as to the effects on me personally.

I would definately get very bored with driving at those speeds on a wide open empty motorway all the time. whether that would affect my concentraction I would not know unless I was forced to drive in that manner.

As to HGV's being permitted to go no more than 56mph, I would be somewhat concerned with their braking abilities compared with other vehicles on the highway. Why was the limit introduced in the first place? Engine efficiency and pollution or potential accident reduction?

hey there

I'm not going to vote as your poll really doesn't cover the reality of long distance driving.
Fully rested I can drive for 200 miles or more at 56 on a quiet road or m-way. Although tiredness is not the problem, boredom is, attention begins to wander and then were into an area that is really not safe.

Of course it does - the terms are relative. It asks if you would concentrate LESS or be MORE LIKELY to fall asleep at 55mph THAN a more common higher speed (for a car driver, of course).

Poor concentration is less than "normal" concentration. etc.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

In reference to the post about the braking systems on HGVs and their ability to stop, I wouldn't advocate sitting behind a Mercedes Actros with a matching trailer fully loaded when the driver decides to stop in a hurry.
These HGVs have been found to stop shorter than a car can, the car will end up using the underrun bar at the back end of the trailer as an emergency braking assist device. BE WARNED!!!!!!!!!!!!
The 56mph/90Kph was introduced by the EU, speed limiters were introduced by the UK. This is noticable by the number of foreign HGVs overtaking at lunatic speeds.
It seems that HGVs have been slowed down as the technology enabling them to travel faster, safer and stop better has improved, believe me, the technology has improved in leaps and bounds.
A car driver may well put remoulds on the front axle of a car, a truck driver/haulier will not, if one did, you wouldn't find me driving it.
The braking and suspension systems are getting more and more advanced all the time, the steering is vastly superior than as little as 10 years ago.
Loading restraints and loading are critical. I once saw a wagon diagonally across the central reservation of the M42, he had gone up the side banking, across the carriageway and through the armco. This was done while carrying a roped and sheeted load of steel wire in coil.
The driver may well have been done for many things, but not an insecure load, the load was perfect, despite what it had been subjected to.
The greatest hazard to a truck driver, is a car driver that has no concept of the existance of a truck or what it can and cannot do.
Truck drivers are generally better than most car drivers, because they have to drive a truck and think for most car drivers as well.

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Semper in excreta, nur quantitat variat.

Yeah, it might.

Then again so might removing all car stereos and heaters, slackening up the suspension and replacing disc brakes for drums.

But nobody would seriously propose these as methods to improve road safety would they?

JD

Im new to this forum and im very interested in what you guys have to say =]

I have an experiment for you all, when driving against oncomming traffic and you see a particularly slow person driving towards you, make some sort of rude gesture or something that would usually get their attention...i try this every now and then and 9/10 people do not even notice you! For example, if i give a driver the finger (clearly viewed as im on a motorcycle) they usually dont not even notice. When im stuck in traffic i often find that when i look back on being stuck in traffic and i cant remember any details of that portion of the journey, this is not good at all as it symbolises that i have not been paying attention. Usually i remember ever bit of my journey, each bump in the road and manhole cover and i am looking out for them, but when traveling too slowly these things arent a threat so my attention level drops...

All the best

Tom

Aaaaaaaah Rusty, you have forgotten the most important thing there, motorcycles are invisible, so it wouldn't matter how many fingers you put up.
Having said that, I am annoyed at the number of motorcyclists in my area who insist on wearing dark clothing and not switching their lights on, mind you the same can be said about car and truck drivers not knowing where their light switches are, particularly in rain, my habit is that when my wipers are switched on, so are my lights, not so I can see, but so I can be seen. If my vision is reduced by rain, then so is everybody else's.

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Semper in excreta, nur quantitat variat.