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 Post subject: Bypasses Don't Work
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:49 
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On the radio this morning was a report of a study showing that for the Newbury bypass - and one other in Sussex - traffic levels in the town are creeping up to their pre-bypass levels.

You would think that they would be pleased by the upturn in economic activity that this indicates. What is happening is that after the bypass is built, the council releases land adjacent to it for development. More traffic is thus created. So, it's not the bypass, it's the council's policy that actually causes the rise in traffic. The answer is in their own hands.

I don't subscribe to the argument that you "can't go on building roads". You can. Just look at any aerial photograph to see just how little area of the country is roadways. There is a limit based on the total driving population beyond which congestion would be reduced by more road space. Yes, I know that better roads facilitate more journeys but if you build enough roads then this problem will still be solved.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:17 
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You're dead right Malcolm!

Here's a BBC news report: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/5138912.stm

Actually it looks like the 'failure' claims are weak too, and generated by a biased source to boot.

When are they going to wake up the the idea that congestion is regulated by journey time, and always will be?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:27 
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The research was carried out by the CPRE; they could hardly be described as unbiased individuals!


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 Post subject: Re: Bypasses Don't Work
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:40 
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malcolmw wrote:
On the radio this morning was a report of a study showing that for the Newbury bypass - and one other in Sussex - traffic levels in the town are creeping up to their pre-bypass levels.

You would think that they would be pleased by the upturn in economic activity that this indicates. What is happening is that after the bypass is built, the council releases land adjacent to it for development. More traffic is thus created. So, it's not the bypass, it's the council's policy that actually causes the rise in traffic. The answer is in their own hands.


Exactly right, I wonder why the councils can't see that :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:56 
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I live near the M27, and local roads are getting pretty congested, although some of this is down to bad traffic management designed to be anti-car. If the M27 didn't exist these roads would now be a nightmare; the main through routes would be at gridlock and people would be rat-running on residential streets to avoid the congestion, like they do to avoid the rephased traffic lights near my house.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 13:32 
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The volume of passenger car traffic went up less than 1% in 2004 and zero in 2005.

It is not the increase in road traffic that is causing increases in congestion.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 13:45 
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It often takes the same time to negotiate my local motorway junctions than it does to actually make the motorway journey. That includes 11pm at night, thanks to getting stopped by three consecutive sets of traffic lights on a simple roundabout interchange! Bring back part time signals!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 15:11 
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As someone who has to drive from Staffordshire to the Portsmouth area several times a year, and has been doing this for aound 20 years, it is my absolute view that Newbury without the bypass was MUCH worse than Newbury now!

(Pre-bypass it was purgatory)

There ARE big jams around there still but that is to do with increased traffic in holdiday times IMHO


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 19:35 
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Since we recently twice saw Kendal choked - once with the A591 bypass traffic, then with the entire traffic load from the M6, which was closed due to a lorry fire, I can recommend a sure fire way of demonstrating the real benefit.
Block the bypass for a day! :lol:
It showed up Kendal's one way system for what it really is too - a real dogs dinner! :x
Image
LORRIES queing for up to two hours to get into Kendal

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 19:16 
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prof beard wrote:
As someone who has to drive from Staffordshire to the Portsmouth area several times a year, and has been doing this for aound 20 years, it is my absolute view that Newbury without the bypass was MUCH worse than Newbury now!

(Pre-bypass it was purgatory)

There ARE big jams around there still but that is to do with increased traffic in holdiday times IMHO


Yes, I thought the same thing when good old Radio 4 fed me the line about Newbury being "no better". I suspect it depends whose point of view you are looking at it from. The residents of Newbury may find it "no better"; The long distance users of the A34 may disagree.

This is of course analagous with lower speed limits. An awful lot of nimbys want a 30 limit (or lower :o ) outside their own house, but to be able to go fast outside other people's.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 19:23 
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Newbury was blighted without the by-pass for the last 20 years. It has just woken up and found itself.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 21:43 
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The reason why Newbury is now so busy is probably down to the fact that it is a more pleasant place to visit than when lots of container lorries and other through traffic passed through the centre.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 22:13 
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As somebody who never wants to go any closer to Newbury than I have to, but also who needs a good route from the Midlands to West Sussex, I think that the by-pass is working perfectly, and in fact is a lot better now that they have sorted out the bridge for the M4 so that you don't have to queue for a mile there either. Going through Newbury was an absolute nightmare, now it is very nice thank-you.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:22 
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It's normal for housing and industrial development to creep towards a bypass but not past it. It's happening here in Darlington with the A66 bypass.

Longer-distance traffic is lucky that the A34 Newbury bypass has grade-separated junctions so the local traffic doesn't tend to jam it up. We got a single carriageway bypass with 4 roundabouts in 5 miles (for cost-saving reasons) and the peak-hour delays at the roundabouts are spreading out of the peak because of the mix of local and long-distance traffic.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:45 
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Defeats the comment that "Bypasses don't work" really, doesn't it?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 21:20 
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Mansfield Bypass, absolutely brilliant, instead of taking an Artic through the town, fighting your way round tight corners and dodging traffic, and wasting fuel at countless numbers of traffic lights.
I can save about 20 minutes off a journey, thereby reducing fuel usage, and pollution.
Pity they have the real estate for a dual carriageway, but only built a two lane road.

A47 Thorney, the main drag from Peterborough to Wisbech, used to be a nightmare going through Thorney, a very small picturesque village.
It only took about 75 years of campaigning to get the bypass.
But, I bet the quality of life in Thorney has improved 100 or more fold, reduced noise and pollution and fuel usage.
And the journey once again has been reduced by about 15 minutes.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 23:32 
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sotonsteve wrote:
It often takes the same time to negotiate my local motorway junctions than it does to actually make the motorway journey. That includes 11pm at night, thanks to getting stopped by three consecutive sets of traffic lights on a simple roundabout interchange! Bring back part time signals!


Absolutely. I went uptown today (I normally walk, but had to drive today because I was getting a flat tyre repaired) and in a journey of less than two miles I had to go through nine sets of traffic lights, counting a roundabout as one set. Does anyone else think traffic lights are overused? No wonder cyclists sometimes roll through red ones :twisted:

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:54 
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The Vine prog debated this. Lady from Newbury said that without the bye-pass - Newbury would be gridlocked as this traffic would be travelling through the town instead.

She say that ist busy und others also point this out - because they build out-of town shopping malls, retail und business parks along these bye-passes which lead to more traffic using them to reach these places. :roll:

But by und large - no one ringing into the show could prove that the bye-pass did not work for their towns in any case :wink:

I think it was on same day as this thread opened und was about 12-30 - 1 pm if people want to listen again on the R2 site. :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:58 
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Rhythm Thief wrote:
sotonsteve wrote:
It often takes the same time to negotiate my local motorway junctions than it does to actually make the motorway journey. That includes 11pm at night, thanks to getting stopped by three consecutive sets of traffic lights on a simple roundabout interchange! Bring back part time signals!


Absolutely. I went uptown today (I normally walk, but had to drive today because I was getting a flat tyre repaired) and in a journey of less than two miles I had to go through nine sets of traffic lights, counting a roundabout as one set. Does anyone else think traffic lights are overused? No wonder cyclists sometimes roll through red ones :twisted:


Back home und in France - they move to amber flashing at night. This mean you treat as normal cross roads - crossing if safe to do so :wink: The amber alert to hazard und to take care.

:scratchin: I wonder if the red light cams France now seek to introduce will be set accordingly :roll:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 15:11 
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WildCat wrote:
The Vine prog debated this. Lady from Newbury said that without the bye-pass - Newbury would be gridlocked as this traffic would be travelling through the town instead.

She say that ist busy und others also point this out - because they build out-of town shopping malls, retail und business parks along these bye-passes which lead to more traffic using them to reach these places. :roll:

Newbury - which houses the Vodafone HQ - is also about the UK's #1 economic hotspot and the place with the lowest unemployment. So it's hardly surprising that traffic levels in the town have risen!

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