Safe Speed Forums

Last night I drove from Reading to Stafford starting out about 12.45am - got back some time after 3am.


The roads were, as one would expect, very quiet and it was raining heavily on and off.


I was amazed by the numbers of times I came up behind another car driving happily along in the middle lane of what was, apart from them and me, a completely empty motorway. This meant I had to cross from the nearside to outside lane to pass. (I got this on the M40, M42, M6 Toll and M6)

Two questions

- what is the psychology of such people?

- are they actually commiting an offence?

Beats me. There is a vague suggestion that driving up the middle lane on an empty motorway gives you plenty of 'escape space' either side in case you happen upon something unexpected.
I just believe most don't actually know or care how to drive properly on a motorway.



I don't believe they are.

I have a friend (A) who used to car share with a colleague (E). A is fast but responsible; E is slow and .......

When A drives E:
E is scared (literally shouting ‘whoa’) when A is accelerating properly on motorway slip roads (M27) to join the main flow with little differential.

When E drives A:
E permanently occupies lane 2 (of 3), speed fixed at 50mph, death grip on wheel, eyes fixed ahead only. A is acutely embarrassed as even the undertaking HGVs, let alone the car drivers, are giving E plenty of horn. E responds “I don’t care, I’m doing nothing wrong”.

That became a bone of contention between them, the car sharing soon ended.

I thought this was covered by 'inconsiderate driving'? Certainly the police officers I know would give them a tug in such a situation, as it shows complete lack of awareness for their surroundings.

WRT undertaking, the Highway Code doesn't recommend undertaking, but there's nothing in it, or the Road Traffic Act that says it's an offence; only if it is percieved as dangerous driving or Undue Care... by plod. So as long as traffic is light, I just stay in lane 1.

L1 - one escape lane to the left, two to the right

L2 - two escape lanes to the left, one to the right.

Can't see much difference, apart from the obvious fact that if you're in L1 the escape lane to the left is very unlikely to have a car in it.

Anyway, if that logic were true, how do you explain the fact that the majority of these morons will sit in L3 when it's a 4 lane motorway.

I still think the Lorry Lane explanation that I wrote on my Middle Lane Owners Club site is the most likely. Either that or they're just lazy and inconsiderate.

And yes I just stay in L1 as well

My choice on an empty 3-lane motorway when, er, not hanging around, is straddling the L1/L2 boundary line.

I don't, I said it was a vague suggestion. Perhaps I should have added - one which I don't connect with.

It's one of a long list of things that slowly drove me mad over the bank holiday weekend. Others include the number of people who think they have the right of way when joining the motorway and force their way out regardless of the other traffic (nearly taking front bumpers with them) and a few drivers who don't seem to have grasped the concept of lanes and roundabouts yet. Or giving way to traffic from the right...

Anyway, back to hoggers...the worst one I saw this weekend was a red Peugeot 106 on the M62 East on Sunday evening. Was coasting along (75 ish) in L3 despite L1 and L2 being empty and no junctions for a few miles. Of course people were catching up with it and most gave a flash of lights. The Peugeot moved over to L2 to let them past...then moved back into L3. Still no traffic in L1 or L2. Unbelievable. There isn't even the "more escape routes" argument with L3. I was baffled as I watched countless vehicles repeat variations on the same manoevere before deciding enough was enough and getting well ahead of them myself.

One advantage of driving up the middle lane is that it isn't rutted to hell from lorries. If you have low profile tyres you are all over the shop on the inside lane so it is more comfortable to be in the middle lane. With an occupied motorway it is easy to do as you can keep overtaking. When it is empty it is a bit more tricky! I'd probably travel in the middle lane then move left when a vehicle approached if the rutting was bad enough to make the inside lane dodgy to travel in. Some sections are worse than others and there are only a few (concreted sections spring to mind) that would force me into the middle lane during empty times.

in the original scenario.... what harm is it actually doing?... what problem did it actually cause (save a bit of indicator stalk wear)? how long were you delayed?

sometimes i'm lazy about getting back across if there's no one around for me to hold up.

My assistant's lane discipline is pretty rotten at times. She changes lane to overtake the vehicle in front way too early IMHO and doesn't change back unless she's got similar room. She also doesn't seem to be able to keep a constant speed, i.e speeds up, gets out into the next lane then slows down when she pulls back in and ends up being overtaken by the car she's just passed

I have a philosophy of not criticising other people's driving ("let he who is without sin...") but she once raised it herself after some chav had undertaken her on a DC and then given her some abusive hand signals etc.

I said (in the nicest possible way) that I thought she didn't pull in amazingly quickly after overtakes. Her reply was that she didn't LIKE changing lane and tried to do it as little as she could get away with as it made her nervous.

I'm guessing she's not the only one who thinks like this.

Given the each lane change is attended by a slightly greater element of risk than staying in lane, it's not an entirely stupid idea.

There is no point in returning to Lane 1 if you're likely to have to come back into Lane 2 fairly shortly.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

The M2/M5 into Belfast has 5 lanes in each direction, but lane 1 of each is sort of a slip road... And when it's busy it's better not to change lanes too often, so I tend to sit at 50 in lane 2... If you stay in lane 1 you end up coming off at each junction... But I think that's a completely different thing... I also expect to get undertaken on this part of the motorway, and I don't tend to get upset over it... I guess I should really stay in lane 1 as long as possible, but at 50 its very very difficult to get into lane 2 before you run out of space... Especially when everyone else is doing 70/80...

So I suppose I'm sort of a middle lane hogger, but if I had my way, I wouldn't be doing 50...

To see what I'm talking about... http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&z=19&ll ... 9&t=k&om=1

and move south...

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Mike

driving without due care and attention?
causing an obstruction?

i did ask one of the officers on this site a question regarding these people a while ago. specifically would an HGV driver be prosecuted for undertaking one of these morons. the approximate reply was that the middle lane hogger would get a telling off and depending on circumstances, so would the HGV driver. judging by this response, i would say that it is an offence although probably along the same lines as the stupid woman who stopped on the M6 to ask directions

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Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585

Yes, but it rather depends on your definition of "fairly shortly"

Yep, for many it appears to mean the 150 miles between joining and leaving the motorway.

In that case could you tell her not to change out of lane 1?

Exactly the problem I have.
The condition of some inside lanes (M25 one of the worst) is unbelievable. I can literally feel the steering pulling the car left or right so suddenly and strongly it just forces you to get into the middle lane to avoid paying too much attention to the steering and little to the traffic.

I too usually move into L1 when I notice approaching traffic but don't do that if motorway is empty. On which anyway I would be travelling fast enough not to have to worry about it too often.

I think it came from my mum who got pulled once for a warning over middle lane hogging (quiet day in the West Midlands, obviously), but anyway I picked up from somewhere at least that there was a recommendation that you could stay out if you would be overtaking again within 10 seconds (or should pull in if you would then be in the inside lane for at least 10 seconds).

I have tried this from time to time and while I would often be happy pulling over for 7 or 8 seconds worth of inside-lane time, it's quite a sensible way of approaching it.

It seems to me it's all about how you approach lane-changing in the first place. Clearly for many people the problem is that they see each lane as a continuum (a road within a road almost) and so they are making two entirely separate lane change manoeuvres to pull out to pass someone and to pull back in. That is to say, only once they have passed the car/cars they pulled out to pass will they even start to consider whether pulling back in is a possibility.

Whereas I see it (and think it ought to be seen) as making one overtaking manoeuvre, much as I would on a single-carriageway road, with the ASSUMPTION being that I will go back in afterwards - unless other factors prevent it. So as I am passing the first car I am assessing whether I can/should pull back in afterwards, and it all happens as one manoeuvre.

The other element is that I find changing lanes responsibly keeps me alert - reminds me that I'm driving, if you like - and hence I would say there's an argument that it reduces MY risk as I drive, even if theoretically changing lanes is a danger point in the driving flow.

Ian

I'd agree with that - changing lanes safely and smoothly in both directions is a skill and skills should be practised over and over so you don't forget how to do them!

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.