Safe Speed Forums

Where does the law actually stand on the carrying of documents (You know, insurance certificate, logbook, licence, the usual), because I've just heard claims that if the BiB that stops you decides to be an arse, its actually an arrestable offence NOT to carry them...?

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Don't think it is an offence, if you don't have your documents on you, or they're not registered on the NPD, then they will give you a producer. If all your documents are registered on NPD then they can check them out there and then.

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

No offences are being comitted at all if you don't carry your documents, let alone be arrestable.

Plod can arrest you however if he or she is not happy with any personal details you give and you have no checkable way of proving who you are (eg, not on the electoral role, vehicle not registered to you, etc).

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

You get an order to produce at a local station of your choice. The form is an HORT1 and from memory I think you get 5 days to produce.

In my miss-spent youth I used to get stopped for a documents check all the time. Sometimes I had 3 HORT1s in one week. The Police HATE having to fill the forms in at the police station, especialy on a busy friday night.

It is not against the law not to carry documents

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Speed camera policy Kills

It's 7 days, and I hope you took your document and all 3 producers into the station at once, only one trip for you and 3 times the work for plod


They can still be annoying with those things though, as an event that happened to my dad illustrates.

[rant starts here, feel free to skip]

Christmas eve, 5:30 PM, my dad iso n his way home through the wallasey tunnel in his company transit van. He follows an HGV into a toll booth, only neither him nor the HGV realise that booth was cars only.

HGV reverses out, hits my dads van, minor damage. Both go through another toll booth then pull over to exchange details. Neither driver really gives a crap as they're both insured company vehicles and hey, it's christmas right?

Not so if you work for the tunnel police. Working for the tunnel police is like working for the regular police except for the fact that you have no power, only a tiny jurisdiction, have to be a miserable bastard before you can get the job, oh and PCSOs and traffic wardens will likely look down upon you as pathetic meaningless jobsworths. Anyway, 5 of them come running over as they have nothing better to do and give HORT1 producers to my dad and the van driver.

So my dad has until new years eve to obtain the logbook, insurance and MOT from the company head office that is closed until 2nd january.

What a great christmas that was, mostly spent with him chasing around the home addresses of various company admin staff to get keys and information since the officer wasn't prepared to extend the notice to 14 days even though it was entirely within their power to do so.

I make great effort not to carry id, documents or letters in my car after having a car stolen. I had the car serviced to go on holliday the next day, we went out to a meal and I had two big sets of keys on me. I made the mistake of leaving one set of keys in the glove box. There was paperwork to our house and the father inlaws house. there were keys to both houses.. We had to change 5 locks. We didn't go on holiday (no car and fear they might try to use keys to break into both houses.) The car was dumped two days later with no dasboard, air bags, radio, pacel shelf. They got in by the boot and were probobly just after the radio.

plod then confiscated the car for three more days.

Don't leave keys or paperwork in your car!

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

'It's 7 days, and I hope you took your document and all 3 producers into the station at once, only one trip for you and 3 times the work for plod.'

Used to be 5 days....

It is an offence not to produce the documents on request, but there is a defence for producing them in 7 days, meaning that if you produce them it would be pointless for them to prosecute. This means that the failure to produce occured at the time they were requested, not after 7 days.

edit: The specific wording is:

On that note, is it reasonable to ask for a recipt upon complying with a producer, so that you have some defence should the paperwork get lost at any point.

Last producer I got, I asked for a recipt and was told they don't do them. I asked what if it gets lost, I need evidence that I produced and I was fobbed off with a racist remark from the front desk officer and gave up at that point.

Just wondering what the correct procedure actually is.

I think it is reasonable yes. I've never been asked for them, but I would have expected the HO/RT/1 to have a tear-off section that you keep, although the form is purely for police convenience for them to match producer requests and productions. If the person at the desk lost the form then you would be summonsed for failure to produce. I would like to think that in such a situation the mag's would accept a statement under oath that you did produce them

Gareth

Oh yess. The other thing I picked up is that if it has a "p" on it it means "process". That is if you have committed an offence (in my case a broken tail light bulb) Means even more paperwork for plod behind the desk.

I must admit sitting in a Police station late on a Friday or Saturday night was a great "people watching" opportunity....

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Speed camera policy Kills

7 days - thats why there known as 7 day wonders - licence has to be produced by driver ,and other documents can be produced by any other person, as i remember.
Then if you've sent off your licence to change address etc etc, can you reasonably expect it back in seven days --

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

You'll only get a reciept ifyou are producing and surrendering your license for an endorsable FPN. This acts as a temporary driving license,untilyou recieve yours back from the central ticket office.

reciepts for HORT/1's are not given, you can ask for a photo copy of the HORT/2 register (my advice)