Safe Speed Forums

The campaign for genuine road safety
It is currently Sat Dec 16, 2017 15:43

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 50 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Fuel Protest?
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 08:49 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 08:22
Posts: 2618
civil engineer wrote:
sixy...where can I get hold of f*cking bells....I think they add spice to the CE household!


I'm sure there are websites CE... :roll: :D

_________________
Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fuel Protest?
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 16:10 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 14:47
Posts: 1659
Location: A Dark Desert Highway
The best thing the small haulage companies do is stop cutting each others throats. Do what the big firms do and put your prices up and or put clauses in contracts that the hirer pays for the fuel, just don't work for nothing. Gordon won't take a huge amount of notice about some small haulage firms moaning about the price of diesel and he certainly doesn't give a monkeys about the private motorist, but he does care about inflation, so do your bit and increase your prices!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fuel Protest?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 07:57 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 08:22
Posts: 2618
Trouble is, Adam, there will ALWAYS be companies who will work for less, and the companies charging more will simply fold. People simply aren't prepared to pay a decent price for haulage.

Apparently there was another protest in Cornwall this weekend.

_________________
Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fuel Protest?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:27 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 14:47
Posts: 1659
Location: A Dark Desert Highway
Sixy_the_red wrote:
Trouble is, Adam, there will ALWAYS be companies who will work for less, and the companies charging more will simply fold. People simply aren't prepared to pay a decent price for haulage.

Apparently there was another protest in Cornwall this weekend.



It's not that people arem't prepared to pay for haulage, it is because they don't have to when people are prepared to work for nowt. I think I am right in saying that the big haulage firms are distancing themselves from the protests because their customers have to pay if fuel goes up. Don't get me wrong, I think the price of fuel is scandlous, I'll pay the world price it's the amount of tax and the fickle excuses for jusifing the tax that vexes me, I just think that inflation would be more effective that protests.

Even agricultural contractors are putting fuel surcharges on now and some those people are happy to work 18 hours a day for nothing just to call themselves contractors :roll:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fuel Protest?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 13:54 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:52
Posts: 947
Location: falkirk
i think i should borrow some of the content from transaction to highlight a point here. the RIP section. companies that have gone bust!

Scanny
Moderator
Mon May 12, 2008 10:06 am

http://www.roadtransport.com/Articles/2 ... 23/130588/ramage-distribution-the-facts-behind-its-demise.html

something for the hauliers to watch out for. it seems the fuel suppliers might be getting worried with regards to payments not being paid!
"Petroplus, Ramage's main fuel supplier, halved the company's credit limit, reduced it again in December 2007 before removing it altogether. At no time, claims Ramage, had it not paid Petroplus or been late with payments."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reids
http://www.roadtransport.com/Articles/2 ... costs.html
He says an “immediate redundancy programme” has been implemented for the firm’s 200-strong workforce, but a minority of workers are being kept on to assist with the rundown of the business.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Transaction
Administrator
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 11:41 am

Sussex haulier Page Group has gone into administration with the loss of 77 jobs. The Ford-based 40-truck firm, which is actually registered as Farndell and Gates, ceased trading last week. Administrators David Hudson and Mark Fry from Begbies Traynor have been appointed.

Its most recent accounts, for the year ending 31 October 2005, show it made a pre-tax profit of about £150,000 on a turnover of just over £5.6m. Hudson says: "[It] was loss-making overall and had escalating costs, which it was not able to pass on to customers. Compounded with a dwindling customer base, the company was forced to close."

Page Group also owns Suffolk-based parcel firm Turbo Express. It filed accounts on 18 January this year, which show that in the year ending 31 October 2006 it made a pre-tax loss of almost £20,000 and that it was owed virtually £200,000 by Page Group. It continues to trade. Parent company and warehousing firm RT Page & Sons is also unaffected by the collapse. No-one from Page Group was available to comment.

Courtesy of Road Transport.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------
ive now gone thanks to dick head brown
grimreaper
Regular Member
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 4:03 pm

Well what can i say , thanks to gordon brown i have had to close the doors on my haulage business

as owner driver i just cant afford to make the wheels turn, im sorry to say i couldnt join in with the protests because of the cost of fuel and being tied up with the sale of my truck and closing it down Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad

Hope you all understand and i will still do what i can to support every body else in this ***** time

i will miss the industry as a driver and owner ,but im getting out of it all together, it shows the jobs not even safe when driving for some big company

_________________
Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fuel Protest?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 14:51 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 15:00
Posts: 1109
Location: Can't see.
Sixy_the_red wrote:
Trouble is, Adam, there will ALWAYS be companies who will work for less, and the companies charging more will simply fold. People simply aren't prepared to pay a decent price for haulage.

Apparently there was another protest in Cornwall this weekend.


Forgive my ignorance of the topic.... but isn't there a supply/demand inbalence here? if people are undercutting each other to the point of insolvency then there must be too many... fuel cost is a constant (across the industry). And if a few companies go bust then surely the problem will rectify itself ie there'll be more demand for the remaining hauliers?

_________________
Fear is a weapon of mass distraction


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fuel Protest?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 15:11 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 08:22
Posts: 2618
It boils down to the price drivers are prepared to work for and whether or not they're prepared ro run bent.

The drivers who demand a decent wage and won't run bent work for the most expensive companies, whereas the cheapest hauliers are the ones using Polish labour, running too many hours.

_________________
Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: UPDATE
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 19:26 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:52
Posts: 947
Location: falkirk
the protests ARE coming. 10th June, 14th June, 19th June, 19th July. some are bigger than others but they are all in the pipeline and to myknowledge, all are being approved by the relevant police forces. they are not necessarily organised by transaction but we are supporting all of them. if you do want to participate then get registered on the site and get involved. these are consumer protests, not trucker protests ie the aims are to reduce petrol and diesel, not just diesel or for essential user rebates!

_________________
Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fuel Protest?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 08:39 
Offline
User

Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 22:50
Posts: 3267
camerasaremoneyspinners wrote:
but since Britian has the highest fuel duty in the world



You sure about that?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fuel Protest?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 14:46 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 02:50
Posts: 2868
Location: Dorset
weepej wrote:
camerasaremoneyspinners wrote:
but since Britian has the highest fuel duty in the world



You sure about that?

Can you find a country where it's higher?
50.35p/litre tax plus 17.5% VAT on top of the price of fuel AND the tax. Last fuel I bought was about 54% tax in total.

_________________
Andrew.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fuel Protest?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 15:02 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:52
Posts: 947
Location: falkirk
Ziltro wrote:
weepej wrote:
camerasaremoneyspinners wrote:
but since Britian has the highest fuel duty in the world



You sure about that?

Can you find a country where it's higher?
50.35p/litre tax plus 17.5% VAT on top of the price of fuel AND the tax. Last fuel I bought was about 54% tax in total.


sorry but does this really matter? we are not campaigning for a global reduction in tax. we are campaigning to have tax lowered for all consumers within our own lands

is this what you want to spend your hard earned cash on?
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20080604/ ... 6b408.html

_________________
Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fuel Protest?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 15:15 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 02:50
Posts: 2868
Location: Dorset
Mmm. If another country has higher tax that doesn't make the UK tax ok, it means the other country is even more ridiculously overtaxed.

"overtaxed" is in the Firefox dictionary. :lol:

_________________
Andrew.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fuel Protest?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 18:30 
Offline
User

Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 22:50
Posts: 3267
scanny77 wrote:
sorry but does this really matter? we are not campaigning for a global reduction in tax. we are campaigning to have tax lowered for all consumers within our own lands


I though the recent fuel protest by hauliers was specifically to get the government to reduce fuel duty specifically for them?


Quote:
The protest organisers want a reduction in duty for hauliers of around 20 - 25p, which they say would bring the UK into line with fuel taxation in the rest of the EU.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/may/2 ... tworkfront


Guess who pick up the tab for that if it comes to fruition!

scanny77 wrote:
is this what you want to spend your hard earned cash on?
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20080604/ ... 6b408.html



Cock ups are always going to happen, if you're going to protest for a cockup free world you'll be around for a while!


Last edited by weepej on Fri Jun 06, 2008 18:32, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fuel Protest?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 18:31 
Offline
User

Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 22:50
Posts: 3267
Ziltro wrote:
Can you find a country where it's higher?



I probably could, but surely it's for the poster than made the original statement to back up their apparent assertion?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fuel Protest?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 19:01 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:52
Posts: 947
Location: falkirk
weepej wrote:
scanny77 wrote:
sorry but does this really matter? we are not campaigning for a global reduction in tax. we are campaigning to have tax lowered for all consumers within our own lands


I though the recent fuel protest by hauliers was specifically to get the government to reduce fuel duty specifically for them?


i dont know where you got that idea from but it couldnt have been from the transaction group :!:

_________________
Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fuel Protest?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 00:11 
Offline
User

Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 22:50
Posts: 3267
scanny77 wrote:
i dont know where you got that idea from but it couldnt have been from the transaction group :!:


The protest organisers [of the most recent fuel protest] want a reduction in duty for hauliers of around 20 - 25p, which they say would bring the UK into line with fuel taxation in the rest of the EU.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fuel Protest?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 08:31 
Offline
User

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 18:50
Posts: 673
Quote:

Quote:
The protest organisers want a reduction in duty for hauliers of around 20 - 25p, which they say would bring the UK into line with fuel taxation in the rest of the EU.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/may/2 ... tworkfront


Guess who pick up the tab for that if it comes to fruition!


I would have to say I largely agree with this statement, however, there is a small problem with this. The rising cost of fuel has led to the exchequer getting a huge windfall that they hadn't budgetted for, so my first question has to be, where on earth is that money going?

Also the high price of fuel means that the price of ALL consumer goods increases, thus massively increasing inflation. This in turn affects interest rates, which will go up (I think, can never work out what the MPC do). So in essence we are already picking up the tab for the exchequer, reducing the fuel tax would simply reduce the size of the governments surplus.

But as I said earlier, the government will almost certainly claw back the money lost from fuel duty by taxation elsewhere. The question is, why would they need to do this, since it is money that they did not expect to receive?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fuel Protest?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:47 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:52
Posts: 947
Location: falkirk
weepej wrote:
scanny77 wrote:
i dont know where you got that idea from but it couldnt have been from the transaction group :!:


The protest organisers [of the most recent fuel protest] want a reduction in duty for hauliers of around 20 - 25p, which they say would bring the UK into line with fuel taxation in the rest of the EU.


transaction have not actually organised anything recently and there are other groups doing their own thing. the recent protests on the transaction website are including ALL motorists. the recent protest in london was open to all motorists but the police prevented private motorists from joining the convoy. this was not known until it was posted on the forum. when one person kicked up a fuss about it the police checked his car over!

dont believe everything you read/see in the news

_________________
Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fuel Protest?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 14:47 
Offline
User

Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 22:50
Posts: 3267
Odin wrote:
I would have to say I largely agree with this statement, however, there is a small problem with this. The rising cost of fuel has led to the exchequer getting a huge windfall that they hadn't budgetted for, so my first question has to be, where on earth is that money going?



I got the impression that overall the exchequer ended up with less and less as fuel prices rose.

I figure the tax raised on domstic fuel is peanuts compared to the amount the government and departments spend on fuel, especially when you take military use into account.

I could be utterly wrong though, just a guess. Assertions like "the government ,must be raking it in due to higher fuel prices" always prick my ears up though.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fuel Protest?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 15:05 
Offline
User

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 18:50
Posts: 673
Quote:
I got the impression that overall the exchequer ended up with less and less as fuel prices rose.


No because both fuel duty and VAT on fuel are percentages, thus as the principal sum rises, the amount taken increases. Quick easy example:
Let's say for sake of argument that fuel costs 50p per litre, and fuel duty is 50% (it's actually nearer 450% but that's irrelevant for this example) so for every litre sold at 50p the government would take 38p (25p duty and 13p VAT) making price at the pump 88p per litre.
Now suppose fuel price goes up to 75p per litre, the government would now take 55.5p (35.5p duty and 20p VAT) making price at the pump 130.5p per litre, an increase in revenue of 17.5p.

The best information I have suggests that in the 2 months to May, the treasury received an extra £505m in unexpected tax.

Quote:
I figure the tax raised on domstic fuel is peanuts compared to the amount the government and departments spend on fuel, especially when you take military use into account.


Not even close, domestic fuel consumption is huge, after all there are 30 million registered vehicles in the UK. Now even taking all government usage including the military, it pales into insignificance.

[edited to make sums clearer


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 50 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.368s | 13 Queries | GZIP : Off ]