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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 11:25 
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Hi all,

I'm tempted to ask M4 protest traffic to run with dipped headlights. It'll make good TV to see hundreds of vehicles with dipped headlights. I also want any vehicles that have to drive by an overfull service area to be able to indicate their participation.

Obviously if the weather is bad folk should have dips anyway.

But if the weather is fine, does anyone see a problem running dips?

I disapprove of daytime running lights in general, but the reasons mainly have to do with masking effects for unlit traffic around junctions and crossings. I don't think this will apply significantly at 56mph in a convoy.

Anyone got a reason for not asking protest traffic to run dips?

Bikers? What say you?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:12 
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Will have the lights on on the bike anyway.

I don't like cars having Daytime running lights as a rule as this counters the biker having his lights on significantly but as you say this is a convoy and as such should really.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 15:04 
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Like you, Paul, I don't like daytime running lights in good visibility, but I think dips should be on for the protest convoy.

I'm 175 miles away and have an important alternative commitment, but I will certainly be there in spirit.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 18:00 
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I think 3 cars should have dipped lights on. Only the 3 in the first row. The only people that should have them on in the day are bikers.

There nothing worse than having a Volvo sat up behind with his lights in, reflecting nicley into your vision through your mirrors I would not want this for the hour or so the protest will last.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 18:49 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
Hi all,

I'm tempted to ask M4 protest traffic to run with dipped headlights. It'll make good TV to see hundreds of vehicles with dipped headlights. I also want any vehicles that have to drive by an overfull service area to be able to indicate their participation.

Obviously if the weather is bad folk should have dips anyway.

But if the weather is fine, does anyone see a problem running dips?

I disapprove of daytime running lights in general, but the reasons mainly have to do with masking effects for unlit traffic around junctions and crossings. I don't think this will apply significantly at 56mph in a convoy.

Anyone got a reason for not asking protest traffic to run dips?

Bikers? What say you?



Well I would be in favour of dips.

The protest is all about publicity and high-profile visibility - in every sense - and as you say Paul, hundreds of cars with dipped lights would make much better TV.

(been both a car driver and biker for 30 years. Don't currently own a bike so will bring car to protest)

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 19:00 
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chriswingfield wrote:
I think 3 cars should have dipped lights on. Only the 3 in the first row. The only people that should have them on in the day are bikers.

There nothing worse than having a Volvo sat up behind with his lights in, reflecting nicley into your vision through your mirrors I would not want this for the hour or so the protest will last.
Cheers


Aren't you extending your perfectly logical and reasonable dislike of unnecessary daytime dips into an unusual environment where it really doesn't matter?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 19:23 
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PeterE wrote:
Like you, Paul, I don't like daytime running lights in good visibility, but I think dips should be on for the protest convoy.

I'm 175 miles away and have an important alternative commitment, but I will certainly be there in spirit.


I'm of the same view. Use of dipped headlights in normal conditions is not helpful IMHO, and may even help to mask the presence of bikers. In this case however I think their use would be appropriate.

BTW, hello again PeterE, I trust you are well. :)

Best wishes all,
Dave.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 19:27 
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TripleS wrote:
BTW, hello again PeterE, I trust you are well. :)

Yes, thriving , thanks very much. Not entirely happy, for obvious reasons :x

Welcome to another voice of common sense on a very active forum :)

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 Post subject: Dipped lights
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 19:57 
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:gatso2:

I have a BMW bike which runs with dipped headlights all the time. Can't turn them off as they forgot to put that switch on the bike! Maybe I can find me a safety pratnership guy to lay across the front to cover them up?! :twisted:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 09:22 
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I lived, worked and driven in Sweden for a year, where dipped headlights are compulsory and I believe all new cars sold since the early '90's they are wired into the ignition. The same is now happening in Florida and other US States.

On almost all roads, I now drive with dipped headlights and, of course, tail-lights. See and be seen...

ISH


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 09:47 
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ish wrote:
I lived, worked and driven in Sweden for a year, where dipped headlights are compulsory and I believe all new cars sold since the early '90's they are wired into the ignition. The same is now happening in Florida and other US States.

On almost all roads, I now drive with dipped headlights and, of course, tail-lights. See and be seen...

ISH


ish

As you have worked in Sweden, you'll probably know that the main reason for the day-running lights rule is that because of the latitude, the sun is very low on the horizon for much of the year so the natural light is no brighter than twilight. In winter, you really can't see vehicles without lights at all well, even at noon.

The rule applies in Norway and Finland as well, but not in Denmark which is a bit further south.

I've had a couple of Volvos in the past 10 years (T5s both). There is a small screwhead on the dash which can be easily turned 90 degrees with a flathead screwdriver. This turns the day-lights on/off. None have been sold new in UK by the dealer network with the day-lights turned to 'on' for more than ten years, though occasionally owners choose to turn them on with the screwdriver.

:)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 09:56 
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ish wrote:
On almost all roads, I now drive with dipped headlights and, of course, tail-lights. See and be seen...


It might work for you, but what's the effect on bikers and pedestrians?

Making yourself more prominent is extremely likely to make other things less prominent...

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:39 
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Rioman,

And Florida?

Paul,

Not many pedestrians on the M4. In all seriousness though, I drive to the conditions on the road and its surroundings at the time. As for motorcyclists, dipped headlights are OK, full beam are not. Neither are Magenta, Red, or other "filtered" lights. And if all of us drove in a safe manner - apologies, another example of lack of attention(?) - unlike the Police Motorcylist on the M3 westbound approaching the J5 exit slip March 2004 (am unable to recall the exact date) at 2.42 -2.44pm, in pesistent rain, with a very wet road with standing water in places, whilst I was in lane 3 overtaking a vehicle in lane 2, that should have been in lane 1 because lane 1 was clear both ways for at least 150yds and the vehicle was travelling at approximately 50-55mph, what is the closest that that Police Motorcyclist should have come to my rear bumper? I have no doubts that your answer will be at least 2 or 3 times the reality of how close that rider was, and I was accellerating to try and keep a safer distance between us. As I moved back into lane 2, then 1, the Police Motorcyclist accellerated to a speed well in excess of 75mph and stayed in lane 3 on towards J4! In rain with a wet road and standing water!

See and be seen.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 13:47 
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ish wrote:
Rioman,

And Florida?


Sorry ish, don't know about Florida. Perhaps you could help us out on that one.

But the Scandinavians have the rule due to poor natural light at northern latitudes, as outlined in previous post (n.b. am frequent visitor to Stockholm, Oslo, Helsinki & Tampera).

:)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 14:05 
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In bright daylight, dipped headlights actually have a detrimental effect. You're perfectly visible to all that shouldn't be removed on grounds of poor eyesight anyway-but if you have the sun behind you and dipped lights it can mask your vehicle-specially if you're on a bike.

But that's not the argument I guess.

How about any of us that have rotating orange beacons run them during the protest? I've got 2 of them.


Last edited by Nos4r2 on Mon Apr 25, 2005 16:30, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 16:09 
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Rioman wrote:
ish wrote:
Rioman,

And Florida?


Sorry ish, don't know about Florida. Perhaps you could help us out on that one.

But the Scandinavians have the rule due to poor natural light at northern latitudes, as outlined in previous post (n.b. am frequent visitor to Stockholm, Oslo, Helsinki & Tampera).

:)


Hi Rioman,

Re Florida, the hire cars that I have driven in Florida since September 2003 have been fitted with head and tail-lights that are activated when the ignition is turned on. I don't know when the change in regulation was made; previously lights had to on in day-time when it was raining. I believe that all new vehicles sold in Florida have had to be fitted with lighting systems that are activated when the ignition is turned on, and this is/has been taken up by a number of other US States.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 19:34 
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ish wrote:
and this is/has been taken up by a number of other US States.


Not true. In some states it is a requirement to put lights on through work zones.

There was a massive backlash from the motorcycle community when this was suggested in Europe because it could make motorcycles less visible.

Also having your lights on in the day is ILLEGAL in Italy. They have no plans to change this law so you would not be able to drive there if you have permanantly on headlights.

In any case if the look at the web site from the protest organiser they have clearly stated HEADLIGHTS ON

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 21:26 
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Having headlights on will also make it plain how many drivers are protesting rather than just blending in with the rest of the traffic, surely?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 21:35 
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I agree that whilst often unnecessary during the daylight hours, we can make a special exception for the protest.

I'm going to be displaying dipped beam headlights and a couple of protest logos during my participation and encourage others to do the same. As DeltaF says, it'll help distinguish between protestors and normal jessie motorists who don't understand a good cause when they see one!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 22:59 
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sorry- I was stating the case for no dip beams in daylight as a general rule. I think having them on during the protest is a damn good idea.


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