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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 13:54 
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Location: Essex
Last winter in Essex (and I'm sure elsewhere) many potholes appeared almost overnight following the snow and frosts. It became almost a standing story/joke on the local radio. Well, eventually these were filled. I witnessed some of this work. If I'm polite I'd say repairs were palliative. However, knowing that teams had so much ground to cover in so little time....

This year we've had some floods. Guess what? Potholes yes. New ones? Very few. Old ones same place with palliatyive repairs dislodged? Almost all of them. Damaging too.

I am sure the councils will have their stock rebuttals of claims. However, given this (evidenced) history, and kmnowing that they could reasonably have been expected to mend the things on a more permanent basis when the dust had settled and weather was better during 2011, would it be possible/sensible to bring a class action?

Why do I ask? ALmost certainly going to need an alloy wheel (many hundreds of sovs) - same corner of the car as last year, from the same enormous crater, disguised of course there was a thin film of water over the road (and the pothole was full - completely invisible).


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 14:15 
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Go through your insurance, they should be able to claim off the council for you. If not claim thought the small claims court, it will only cost you about £30 if you lose.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 14:32 
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graball wrote:
Go through your insurance, they should be able to claim off the council for you. If not claim thought the small claims court, it will only cost you about £30 if you lose.

Yup - appreciate I can do all of this. HOWEVER..

Insurers will not bother the council, but just log one strike off my no claims (or risk) "lives". Council will defend, will therefore need time off work etc... hence wondering about Class action.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 14:42 
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Location: Cumbria
Can't really help here (other than to agree, they're bad - Cumbria is the same), but couldn't help wondering whether (as austerity bites deeper) we'll see a move away from the obscenely low aspect ration tyres and huge alloys of the last decade, back to something with a bit more cushioning in it? Some years ago, Mrs M got an Alfa 156 which the previous owner had put some enormous wheels on with 45 profile tyres. Same thing - £200 for a rim and another £100 for a tyre. Ended up swapping the rims and tyres with another Alfa owner who had some standard ones - he was delighted!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 16:58 
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Quote:
Yup - appreciate I can do all of this. HOWEVER..

Insurers will not bother the council, but just log one strike off my no claims (or risk) "lives". Council will defend, will therefore need time off work etc... hence wondering about Class action.


A few years ago, I would have agreed with you (in fact I didn't claim off my local authority....no don't like that word, they are not really an authority, let's call them what they really are, a council..... about ten years ago for same reason)

These days, however, insurance companies are far more likely to try and claim money back from the liable party (however, far removed from liability they actually are), also councils may bluff to the getting to court stage but in my experience will settle out of court at the last minute.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 20:35 
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Location: Windermere
I cannot believe the amount of patching that takes place when PROPER renewal would be cheaper in the long run!

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msid=218351736197409756744.0004963ae68e2185968ee&msa=0&ll=54.380541,-2.904574&spn=0.000848,0.002642

This google image was made in 2009, and you can make out two patches, both arising from water that wells up from under the road.
Those were made AFTER the whole road surface was replaced in an "improvement" scheme, and by autumn of this year, about 16 separate patches had been made, and still the water continued to well up.
In early December, a tarmac laying vehicle appeared in a nearby lay by, and signs warned of a temporary closure.

Some locals believed that they were finally going to solve the problem.... but after three days, all they had done was relayed a 10 metre stretch of tarmac, without discovering the cause of the water leak.
Within 48 hours, the surface was leaking at one edge - and this has now spread to about 25% of the new tarmac... and we have not yet had any frost!
When we do, a hole will start to form at the weakest point, and the whole saga will start all over again.

If you swivel around in the streetview, the water flows across the surface where the burgundy vehicle is, then veers across - ending up on the opposite gutter in front of the door to the NatWest Bank.
Last winter, I had to alert the county council to the sheet of ice leading across the road - so they dumped a large amount of salt on it - which soon washed away, and re-froze - leaving a huge sheet of ice with pink gritted margins!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 22:22 
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Councils have got to the stage now, where they either don't have the personell with either the experience/know how to do a proper job or are so constrained by idiot accountants that cannot see past their own nose, that nothing will ever get done properly but more and more money is being leached by outside contractors.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 15:46 
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Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
graball wrote:
Councils have got to the stage now, where they either don't have the personell with either the experience/know how to do a proper job or are so constrained by idiot accountants that cannot see past their own nose, that nothing will ever get done properly but more and more money is being leached by outside contractors.

]
I had this problem locally, and I've found that one thing local /national bodies don't like is someomne who will escalate as problem to an elected rep . Possibly I'm lucky in that I've got a very active county councillor ( who is veryn anti the current road safety system), but it seems to have gotten round our county highways dept that i report and expect an answer ,and a timescale ,or in 14 days they get a request for info from my county man . Onm the issue of poor repairs ,again I'd say find your county councillor ( e mail address usually on county web site) and pass on your concerns .And between now and May is a good time to raise the issue,and possibly a letter to a local paper. No local politician likes to be seen to allow poor use of public funding.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 22:55 
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Location: Essex
botach wrote:
<snip> again I'd say find your county councillor ( e mail address usually on county web site) and pass on your concerns .And between now and May is a good time to raise the issue,and possibly a letter to a local paper. No local politician likes to be seen to allow poor use of public funding.


Thanks for that sage suggestion, Botach - I will set to drafting a letter to him this evening. An excellent call.

I'll share it in here and keep you posted (I likely will mosey the draft around for a few days so bear with me).


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 23:37 
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Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 02:17
Posts: 7347
Location: Highlands
Ernest Marsh wrote:
I cannot believe the amount of patching that takes place when PROPER renewal would be cheaper in the long run!

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msid=218351736197409756744.0004963ae68e2185968ee&msa=0&ll=54.380541,-2.904574&spn=0.000848,0.002642....
If you swivel around in the streetview, the water flows across the surface where the burgundy vehicle is, then veers across - ending up on the opposite gutter in front of the door to the NatWest Bank.!
I cannot see your burgundy van near the Nat West Bank .... https://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msid= ... 1,0.008256
Is that the right place.

On the point about a Class Action : I agree in principal. I also think the practical side of just getting on and dealing with things properly, ought to happen as a massive priority! :doh: :headbash: In essence it probably happens but when each person has no idea who to contact and how to go about it millions are being 'saved' by Councils at the whole time and cost penalties everyone is having to go through and so very few 'bother'. The consequential damage/s and even accidents caused ought to be gaining great attention.
I found this from a government report : http://www.dft.gov.uk/hmep/pothole/index.php
The review, which has been assisted by experts from both the public and private sectors, focuses on three main themes:

Prevention is better than cure – intervening at the right time will reduce the amount of potholes forming and prevent bigger problems later.
Right First Time – do it once and get it right, rather than face continuous bills. Guidance, knowledge and workmanship are the enablers to this.
Clarity for the public – local highway authorities need to communicate to the public what is being done and how it is being done.

The report makes seventeen recommendations for Government, local highway authorities and others to take forward.
Don't forget that the Council is legally bound to act as the Government Demands and if they are not then they are clearly failing in their task.
Pothole Review and Action Plan - which on the face of it seems good created June 2012 : http://www.dft.gov.uk/hmep/docs/120608- ... n-plan.pdf
(At least the problem is recognised and some attempt to sort it out is 'happening' even if the current applications are failing far short of expected outcomes long term! I guess contacting the Highways Agency Efficiency Programme may help force the local Council into pulling up their socks immediately !

News Items : Christmas Day Pot hole bursts tyres : http://www.kirkintilloch-herald.co.uk/n ... -1-2717009
and many more : https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pot+h ... 20&bih=913

WOW ! A seriously deep (neigh suicidal) and dangerous 'pot' (Creator) hole !! : https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pot+h ... 20&bih=913

Sussex receives extra funding for pot hole repairs. : http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/10134477 ... x/?ref=rss
Essex : http://www.essexhighways.org/Roadworks- ... to-us.aspx
Trafford Council Pot hole reporting site : http://www.trafford.gov.uk/transportand ... /potholes/ (There must be more !?)
Sandell have a special emergency number to call on their site : http://www.sandwell.gov.uk/info/200284/ ... 1/potholes

So Roger did this one get reported (especially) do you know ? I dare say that perhaps being able to show knowledge of or proof of, reports to the Council about this one will assist any ongoing claims. Perhaps when it costs them gobsmacking amounts in claims they will then have to act to 'save' money long term !! :(

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 23:58 
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Some food for thought while you are constructing your letter :

Essex Pot Hole Claims (to use as case in point/s) :
Fat chance of a speeding fine here: Anger as council put up speed camera next to giant POTHOLE
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z2H39zhPy4
(Gees - Well I never !)

Dartford Crossing delays caused by dangerous pothole -http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/gravesend/10120456.Dartford_Crossing_delays_caused_by_dangerous_pothole/

London 'famous' incident : Peaches Geldof spills the baby but not her phone, as she scoops him up and carries on the conversation
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/ar ... z2H39Euxv0

24.8.12
BBC News wrote:
Potholes which damaged cars prompt council payouts
Pothole in Horley, Surrey Potholes like this one in Horley, Surrey, have caused damage to car tyres and suspensions

Local authorities in England have paid out hundreds of thousands of pounds to drivers whose cars were damaged by potholes.
According to Britannia Rescue, Surrey County Council awarded £638,239 in compensation between 2010 and 2012, the highest amount.
Nottinghamshire County Council awarded £158,578 and Kent County Council £133,593.
Britannia obtained the figures through Freedom of Information requests.
The claims included damage to wheel rims, punctured tyres and damaged suspension.
Severe weather over the winter and a failure to repair damaged roads has been blamed for the potholes.

However, John Furey, from Surrey County Council, said: "We have done an enormous amount to improve Surrey's roads."
He said more than 40,000 potholes had been filled since May 2011.

Money paid out by local authorities between 2010-2012*
1. Surrey County Council - £638,239
2. Nottinghamshire County Council - £158,578
3. Kent County Council - £133,593
4. Lincolnshire County Council - £119,706
5. Worcestershire County Council - £110,656
6. Essex County Council - £103,507
7. Hertfordshire County Council - £101,630
8. Lancashire County Council - £97,160
9. East Sussex County Council - £86,591
10. Wiltshire County Council - £83,043
* Data provided to Britannia Rescue through the Freedom of Information Act

Response to Essex pothole complaint a 'waste of money' : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-13197513
Drivers’ Haven Road pothole pain : http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/9587 ... hole_pain/
£5m paid out in pothole damage over 2 years : http://cars.uk.msn.com/news/%C2%A35m-pa ... er-2-years
Cars MSN wrote:
Motorists in the UK have received nearly £5 million in compensation over the last two years for damage caused to their vehicles by potholes and poorly maintained roads.
But with the coalition slashing government spending on road improvements further still, experts fear the situation will only get worse in the future.
1.7 million potholes on UK roads
Pothole-proof car brands

This is according to a study by breakdown firm Britannia Rescue, which also says it costs just £50 to fix a pothole.
Which means 96,000 of these road scars could have been fixed if councils had spent the £4.8 million they’ve paid out to repair damaged cars on tackling the cause of the problem instead.
Officials received a total of 54,000 claims for damage to vehicles during the last 24 months, resulting in an average payout of £132. Though Britannia Rescue’s findings suggest some claims were as high as £3,000.
They may look innocuous, but potholes can cause serious damage to a car. Problems reported include ruined tyres, broken suspension components, failed parts in the steering system and damaged alloy wheels and wheel trims.
One in eight drivers (12.5%) have lodged complaints with town halls since 2010, with Surrey County Council topping the list of payouts. The local authority compensated drivers £638,239 in total, spread over 3,650 claims.
According to Britannia Rescue Managing Director, Peter Horton, “cuts in maintenance funding leave councils difficult choices on roads they prioritise for repair.”
The top 10 councils for pothole compensation claims paid out within the last two years are as follows:
1 ) Surrey – £632,239 (3,650 claims)
2 ) Barnsley – £241,202 (296 claims)
3 ) Nottingham – £158,578 (777 claims)
4 ) Kent – £133,593 (4,904 claims)
5 ) Lincolnshire – £119,706 (620 claims)
6 ) Worcestershire – £110,560 (668 claims)
7 ) Essex – £103,507 (2,696 claims)
8 ) Hertfordshire – £101,630 (1,739 claims)
9 ) Lancashire – £97,160 (626 claims)
10 ) East Sussex – £86,591 (1,388 claims)
Curious how the numbers are slightly different!

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