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Should the UK be selective about immigration?
The UK should allow free immigration from within the EU. 16%  16%  [ 5 ]
The UK should allow free immigration from within the EU and outside. 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
The UK should only allow selective immigration based on skills. 42%  42%  [ 13 ]
The UK should close its borders and train the native population to fill skills shortages. 32%  32%  [ 10 ]
Other. 6%  6%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 31
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 Post subject: Immigration Policy
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 09:45 
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This is in responce to Mpaton2004's insinuation that the majority of people who complain about immigration policy are 'lazy white scum'.

So, how do you feel about immigration?

Legalities aside, a purely rhetorical question.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:01 
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How many people can say they have no foreign ancestors? No Roman, Norman, Viking, etc. blood?

Immigration has generally been good for this country.

We should either be part of the EU and accept the bad with the good or get out.

I know a lot of very nice, hard working Eastern Europeans who are extremely grateful for the chance to work in McDonalds.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 13:55 
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Homer wrote:
How many people can say they have no foreign ancestors? No Roman, Norman, Viking, etc. blood?

Immigration has generally been good for this country.

We should either be part of the EU and accept the bad with the good or get out.

I know a lot of very nice, hard working Eastern Europeans who are extremely grateful for the chance to work in McDonalds.


1st point - ancient history - we dont speak Latin, or wear sandals now, and raping and pillaging is discouraged - but not entirely unknown!
2nd point - HAS is the key word - we NOW live in different times, and should prepare for OUR future in a planned and well thought out manner.
3rd point - ID papers and same immigration laws as the French and Germans? We dont all sing from the same hymn sheet yet!
4th point - so do I, and I have no problem with people coming to Britain and doing jobs others dont like doing. I DO object to them coming in, and telling me what I should do/like/etc. and wanting our political system adapted to suit them.
When I go to France, I obey FRENCH law, and my parents who chose to live there dont seek to change it to suit them!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 14:44 
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I'm a fairly fundamentalist libertarian.

I think we should allow most/all immigration, but slash the welfare state to the minimum.

Effect one:
Come here to work, not to scrounge.

Effect two:
There won't be so many jobs that the indigenous population consider beneath them, because the alternative is less appealing.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 15:08 
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Dodgy one. I would like to think I have the freedom to emigrate to other countries (especially if Bliar carries on) and be able to find a means of supporting myself, hence I would treat others the same way.

I’m open to enlightenment.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 15:22 
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As I sat in the brasserie at lunchtime (owned and run by French nationals with all French staff) I was pondering this point.

Much as I enjoy the ambience of places like these, the UK cannot allow "anyone" to come here who fancies it. We just don't have the space or resources and we can't cure all the world's ills. We thus need some controls and this appears to be commonsense for most countries.

To preserve the benefits of emigration then managed immigration related to essential worker status seems a good bet. Out of interest, does anyone know how many foreigners come here to retire (like lots of us do to Spain)? Not a lot I'd bet.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 21:15 
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[quote="Johnnytheboy"]I'm a fairly fundamentalist libertarian.

I think we should allow most/all immigration, but slash the welfare state to the minimum.

Effect one:
Come here to work, not to scrounge.

quote]

That is now a bone of contention - Human rights shouters are now condemning the state for removing benefits from illegals after 21 days, meaning that instead of going back home they live in all manner of places and raid bins. So we are now being made to feel guilty for then trying to con the system.

Immigration policy - we aint got one it seems -no one seems to know how many are coming in or going out ---


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 23:49 
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smeggy wrote:
Dodgy one. I would like to think I have the freedom to emigrate to other countries (especially if Bliar carries on) and be able to find a means of supporting myself, hence I would treat others the same way.

I’m open to enlightenment.

I think if you went to emigrate to France, you would find opportunities hard to come by.
First you would have to obtain your identity papers, have your car certified suitable for use on the French roads (£600), and your work options would be restricted unless you had a skill which was short in France (like teaching English!).
Why do you think the "oppressed" refugees pass through France without stopping, in order to get to Britain?!! Because the "sans papiers" people get treated like scum, and are "forced" into camps like Sangatte - now closed because we relented and let them all in!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:18 
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It's when I read articles like this in the (Daily Mail) that makes me feel so rebelious about imigration into the UK.

Quote:
Britain is the country of choice for many 'feckless' Poles

By JAMES SLACK
Last updated at 23:12pm on 7th November 2006

Thousands of 'feckless' Poles are raking in unemployment benefits back home while doing 'very nicely' out of the British economy, according to the Polish President.

Lech Kaczynski also said Britain has become the 'destination of choice' for many of his countrymen, who have ended up jobless and homeless here.


Also see 'Polish Borat' claims groping women is normal in Eastern Europe

He was flanked by Tony Blair as he made the remarks, which had to be translated into English before the Prime Minister realised he had been acutely embarrassed on his own doorstep.

The Government has defended the influx of up to 400,000 Poles into Britain by saying they are hardworking and have little interest in claiming benefits.

But Mr Kaczynski said they had been quite the opposite back home - where they are still receiving welfare payments.

He told a Number Ten audience: "I believe there are a number of people - not only from Poland but from a number of other countries - who are feckless naturally, but they seek a better life and they go abroad.

"Currently, the UK has become a destination of choice for such individuals. Poland doesn't shirk responsibility for such individuals. We are aware that such a problem exists.

"We know that there are those who have succeeded in the UK and have jobs and are doing very well, thank you, especially considering the difference in wages between the UK and Poland.

"But these people are registered as unemployed in Poland, so they are living a fiction and raising unemployment figures in Poland while they are doing very nicely in the UK.

"This is something we would like to do without."

An estimated 400,000 Poles have headed to the UK since the controversial expansion of the EU on May 1, 2004.

Initially, most of the migrants succeeded in securing jobs. But as their numbers have increased, many are finding themselves homeless and out of work.

A report by Westminster City Council last week revealed that almost half of central London's homeless people now originate from Eastern Europe.

Mr Blair, in an attempt to smooth over the president's frank remarks, accepted there are 'difficulties in some areas'.

But he added: "I have to say that the vast majority of Polish people who come to work here are working very hard. They are very well regarded.

"Although there are difficulties in some areas, of course, when you have significant numbers of people coming in, on the whole I think the Polish delegation here will find a very warm welcome from British people to people from Poland."

It is not the first time Eastern Europeans have been accused of exploiting the EU's generous welfare systems.

Earlier this year, it emerged that at least 11,000 are claiming tax credits in Britain for children who have never even visited this country.

Under rules which have existed since 1973, all EU citizens can claim for their children even if they are not living with them. The tax credits can be worth thousands of pounds each year.

Sir Andrew Green, chairman of the Migrationwatch UK pressure group, said: "This is yet more evidence that the immigration and welfare aspects of EU enlargement have simply not been thought through.

"There needs to be much closer liaison between the two welfare systems to prevent systematic abuse of this kind."

A Downing Street spokesman downplayed the remarks, saying: "What the Polish PM actually said was that Polish people who come here have the opportunity to learn English and other skills and he welcomed that fact.

"His words are being yanked out of context. What he did not say was that feckless people come here to continue to be feckless."

Mr Kaczynski arrived in the UK on Monday evening and had an audience with the Queen at Buckingham Palace yesterday morning.

He was quizzed by Polish reporters about whether he liked English breakfasts.

He said he enjoyed them, although he found them 'too hearty for me, a bit copious'.

A flagship Government scheme which granted 46,000 immigrants the right to stay in Britain has been suspended amid fears of abuse.

The Home Office said it is halting the Highly Skilled Migrant Programme immediately while the rules on fake documentation and papers are tightened.

The announcement fuelled suspicions that migrants have been using fake documentation to claim they fulfil key requirements of being allowed into the UK, such as degrees or highly-paid jobs back home.

Liberal Democrat spokesman Nick Clegg said: "How many visas have been granted on the basis of forged documents? This statement has a whiff of panic about it.

"The Home Office seems to be tightening the procedures because they are not being properly policed in the first place."

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 13:48 
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Johnnytheboy wrote:
Effect one:
Come here to work, not to scrounge.

Effect two:
There won't be so many jobs that the indigenous population consider beneath them, because the alternative is less appealing.


totally agree. i am working class plain and simple and i stronly resent the cant-be-arsed-working class as it is our wages supporting them. there are plenty of unskilled jobs around for them but somehow they manage to sit at home all day living it up. if the foreigners want to move here, fine but they support themselves from day one. if they dont have the cash, they dont come here. plenty of other countries around the world play by this rule so why cant we? lose your lob legitimately, go to the dole office and how far will you get? nationality? british! sorry, come back in 6 months and we might offer you retraining and a small allowance :x

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