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What is your main reason for opposing "pay as you go" road pricing?
Most of the journeys being made are essential - people going to work etc. 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
No real public transport alternative 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Public transport would cost EVEN MORE than paying road pricing charge 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Don't trust the govt. to implement and manage a £314bn computer project 17%  17%  [ 5 ]
Opposed to the govt. monitoring our movements 28%  28%  [ 8 ]
Believe the scheme is unfair - would penalise working people the most 24%  24%  [ 7 ]
NOT opposed to road pricing - believe the money collected would be spent wisely by our caring government 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
Other - please state in post 17%  17%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 29
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:19 
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A recent Downing St. poll on road pricing drew 1.8m votes from people opposed to the scheme. It has been a topic of much discussion in the past few weeks, and it is clear that there are many different reasons why people are opposed to it.

I thought I'd run this poll to see how our opinions differ as to the leading reason to oppose road pricing. The poll has no time limit - a "never ending" poll.

I don't normally vote in my own polls, but as I make no secret of my views, my vote here reflects my belief that I don't have any confidence in the government (any government) managing such a project with any measure of success.

I don't see how the government can get traffic off roads like the M25 around London, or the M60 around Manchester, at 8am on a weekday morning. Clearly, anyone using those roads at those times have journeys which they MUST complete as part of their daily lives, and are not driving for the fun of it.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:39 
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Looks like we agree.

It will just cost us huge amounts of money and will not work.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 13:10 
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Can't really vote, the first 6 reasons are "the" reason I don't want it and TBH I have not put enough thought into ranking them.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 13:10 
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Likewise, should be able to tick more than one.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 13:52 
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I can't vote either.

My top two reasons are:

1) The system itself will cost megabucks to create and to operate. This money is 'lost forever' from the transport improvements we need.

2) It won't even manage congestion because for every poor person we price off the roads, there's a rich one ready to take advantage of the improved conditions.

Have you seen: http://www.safespeed.org.uk/tolltax.pdf ? (Our report on the subject.)

And have you seen the 'Traveltax' campaign website: http://www.traveltax.org.uk ?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 17:07 
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Apart from a firm belief that tolling will not have any discernable effect,
lets look at a few computer systems.

CSA. One of its own designers has said it will not work.

Customs and Excise.

Courts.

National Air Traffic system

Criminal Records Bureau

All of them have gone into gross overspend, and even more gross overtime, and STILL don't work

The CRB one has in fact ruined peoples lives by labelling them as criminals, just because they have the same or similar name as a criminal.
The CRB is a relatively small database, without tracking liability, how in Gods name do they think a HUGE databas With tracking ability will work when the CRB one doesn't?

The problem here IMHO is they are using technology because it is available, not because it is needed.
Just because there is a mountain in front of you, doesn't mean you Have to climb it.

The technology companies CAN do the job, if left alone to do it, once the prameters have been laid out, but once they get on with the job, in comes the interference from TPTB wanting the system to do something else, that it was not designed for, bit like wanting to use a chisel as a screwdriver, might work in the short term, but will soon break.

Why use a computer to do the job, when better roads management will do the job better, and more importantly, CHEAPER.

To my mind, it is a gross abuse of technoloy.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 03:21 
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Because we already have two systems of road pricing (congestion and fuel duty) both of which are cheaper to run than a GPS based system.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 08:25 
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I'm another in the "can't vote because there's no option for just about all of the above" camp.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:57 
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Thanks for the replies so far.

Yes I realise that most of us will identify with more than one of the choices given in the poll. That's why I asked for which you feel is the MOST significant reason - not to say that the others are not significant as well.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 13:53 
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Because:
1. It won't work (see other comments about gov IT)
2. It depends on Galileo which is currently in dire straights
3. We are already paying for the priviledge of driving on our terribly maintained underfunded road network.
4. Because I am sure that the primary reason for it is because Brussels wishes to implement a European Road Charging policy and my thoughts about Brussels are not suitable for inclusion in this forum :evil:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 16:41 
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I'm in the "Most of the above" camp.

There are just too many reasons against it and I can't see any reason for it.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 18:57 
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Most of the journeys being made are essential - people going to work etc.
No real public transport alternative
Public transport would cost EVEN MORE than paying road pricing charge
Don't trust the govt. to implement and manage a £314bn computer project
Opposed to the govt. monitoring our movements
Believe the scheme is unfair - would penalise working people the most

all of them although my main gripe is the underlined one. i cant use public transport. i start and end at different times every day and in different places. no buses after 10pm so i cant get home after that or start work then either. a car is a necessity for me that i am already paying a lot to run. how could i get to work when no alternative is available?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 20:11 
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Have not voted.

Where do you start?


Most of us use and need our cars to get to and from work. I think the congestion at peak times proves this.

We even have daft train ticket pricing to "deter people from travelling a t peak times "

:roll:


Look.. most employers run a fixed 9 to 5 routine.. and even if they do "flexi".. the core times are in the peak rush times. :roll:

Most will not embrace the technology and have the odd work from home under the duvet day.. as they do not trust their staff :roll:


Public transport is not only expensive.. it's not convenient. :roll:

I know Ju-Ju who works in Altrincham would have to get a bus to Eccles to catch the tram to Manchester .. and then take tram and then a bus to her school. She costed this against current cost and then against proposed charges... and currently she pays LESS than the public transport .. including park/ride fees and her overheads of insurance/fuel/repairs and has convenience.

With the congestion charge.. she would perhaps break even with current tram/train/bus rates on cost. But there is the matter of time and convenience to her working hours.

Likewise my other sister and my brother in that area.

For me? I would be on rural roads initially.. and then at high peak rate perhaps later on in my journey. I do not really have a public transport alternative and cycling . . out of the question due to sheer distance. A pro -racer would be drained on that as a daily ride :roll: and nope.. I do not want to live in a town either. I like my rural home and my weekend walks and rides on the Fells. I would suffocate in the big 'burbs. :roll: My work takes me to a number of different hospitals within the Trust's boundaries too. I also lecture and supervise the up and coming medics to take over where I leave off on my retirement. My legacy to our healthy lifestyle is linked to teaching these enthusiastic youngsters after all :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 20:30 
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blademansw wrote:
2. It depends on Galileo which is currently in dire straights


Or Galileo depends on road pricing. :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 21:48 
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Quote:
Look.. most employers run a fixed 9 to 5 routine.. and even if they do "flexi".. the core times are in the peak rush times.

Most will not embrace the technology and have the odd work from home under the duvet day.. as they do not trust their staff


There was a report today that the UK has the largest flexible time workforce in Europe except for the Netherlands.

I was recently talking to a very senior executive at a massive multinational communications company. He is based in the UK but has no UK staff reporting to him and has every incentive - and the technology - to work from home. However, he reckons he is more effective working in an office environment.

As an employer, I think people should physically turn up to work - it is a discipline for the young and more efficient for everyone. There is nothing more annoying than trying to contact a specific person in an organisation who knows about your case but who is always away for one reason or another.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 21:50 
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My vote - any one of the first six.

Not so much a fix as a money maker -another POLL TAX for road users.


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