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Choose ONE of the following options which you feel would be most effective in improving the standard of driving on Britain's motorways.
Motorway driving to be included in driving lessons and the driving test 37%  37%  [ 19 ]
"Classroom" style motorway driving education by traffic police 12%  12%  [ 6 ]
Roadside hoardings, reminding drivers to move over when not overtaking 6%  6%  [ 3 ]
More fines/penalty points for lane abuse 6%  6%  [ 3 ]
Road safety reminders to be shown on commercial TV advertisement slots 31%  31%  [ 16 ]
Other suggestion - please describe it in your post if you choose this option. 8%  8%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 51
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 18:23 
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I have already aired my feelings about the driving habits to be seen on Britain's motorways in this poll thread.

I was out this afternoon, and just happened to have my camera with me. :wink: I was passing close to a road bridge over the M40 in Bucks., and thought I'd collect some more evidence.

The first picture shows the general scene. The subsequent pictures were extracted from a one minute movie that I shot, and are of a slightly lesser quality, but good enough for the purpose.

Image


My appearance at this spot was not planned. And yet in only one minute of filming, this is what I found.
  • A middle lane hog, with no intention of pulling over.

    Image
  • A few seconds later, we can see the "funnel effect", whereby any faster traffic is forced into lane 3 if they want to overtake. This is one of my pet hates, BTW.

    Image
  • The five cars in the previous picture are receding into the distance, but now what have we here? It looks like an HGV - but is it? What's it doing in lane 3?

    Image
  • Finally, with the pseudo-HGV receding into the distance, we have a trailer pulling vehicle in lane 3. I have towed glider trailers and I know that the maximum speed for trailers is 60mph., and that they're not supposed to use lane 3.

    Image


Please vote in the poll!

I hope I have chosen the right forum for this thread. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 19:10 
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I don't have a problem with the "ahem" singleton - unless there is someone within 10 - 15 seconds behind him.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 19:25 
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I have voted for "Other".

It is not reasonable or practical to include motorway driving in the basic L-test, as many people live much too far from motorways (there are none north of Perth or west of Exeter, for example).

I believe that the "Pass Plus" course or something like it should be made a mandatory requirement for new drivers, and should include driving on motorways or similar high-speed roads where practical.

There are very few major towns that are too far from at least a grade-separated NSL dual-carriageway, if not a full-blown motorway.

In practice, if someone living in Oban or Aberystwyth doesn't learn motorway driving, it's not going to make too much difference to the overall outcome.

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Last edited by PeterE on Wed Dec 15, 2004 19:28, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 19:26 
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Roger wrote:
I don't have a problem with the "ahem" singleton - unless there is someone within 10 - 15 seconds behind him.

Agreed, it's crap driving, but it doesn't really cause anyone a problem. Even if there's following traffic it won't be delayed as it's easy to overtake.

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Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 19:42 
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Roger wrote:
I don't have a problem with the "ahem" singleton - unless there is someone within 10 - 15 seconds behind him.

There was! See the next pic.

peterE wrote:
It is not reasonable or practical to include motorway driving in the basic L-test, as many people live much too far from motorways (there are none north of Perth or west of Exeter, for example).


Good point... Perhaps motorway driving ought to be a separate rating - you could pass your test and still have the option of driving but without using motorways (many people do not - ever) or you could opt for a more comprehensive test to include a motorway rating. This is much the same as what happens when people learn on Automatics and take their test in one. They can drive automatic only and must pass a separate test to drive manual.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2005 16:41 
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I opted for road safety reminders on TV - provided they're giving across important messages, and not 'ALWAYS REMEMBER TO LOOK AT YOUR SPEEDOMETER ALL THE TIME SO THAT YOU DON'T EXCEED THE SPEED LIMIT BECAUSE THAT IS REALLY BAD AND YOU MIGHT KILL CHILDREN. ALSO CARS ARE BAD' (slight exaggeration ;) ?).

However, I was tempted by 'more fines/points for bad lane discipline', if this were enforced by trafpols. Maybe not even fines/points, but it would be nice to see people being pulled over for middle lane hogging and the like, and getting a good talking to from someone!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 17:37 
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DieselMoment suggested a two tier test.

Fairs fair - we now need two classes of test, and can you see DVLA setting two test fees.

Don't forget that the drivers in Oban or that town in Wales I can't spell have their own set of skills that those that use the motorways don't.
Don't know about wales, but in Oban, no DC - but plenty of windy and winding roads - cornering skills are a must as is ability to drive in poor weather conditions etc
Now those that learn in towns need to pass a test to learn how to drive in bad weather conditions

Trouble is that passing test is a postcode lottery.
About almost 40 years ago i passed test in city - and then learned on single track roads. Two different sets of problems.

The only true fact is that only the bit about local conditions gets worried about for test.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 09:37 
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I voted for road safety reminders on TV but seriously doubt if this would have any effect on the drivers that clearly "think they know better".

Can't for the life of me work out why people "lane hog". :?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 07:24 
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Mr Ahem saw the blue HGV in the distance and figured it wasn't worth his effort to pull into L1, only to pull back out a minute or so later. Just laziness really. Happens all the time. The guy genuinely thinks there's no problem with his decision to stay in L2. People should be educated on how the lane system works, but more importantly, why. I don't think problems like this can be addressed with legislation.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:38 
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I voted for TV reminders, providing they treat us like competant adults and the message is not overly simple and plain obvious. Lane discipline would be a good one I think.

The singleton in the first clip is not a concern if he's the only one around, but the funnel effect as shown in clip 2 gets me irratated. The simple act by the drivers in Lane 2 of pulling over would make the motorway flow better and safer. Of course there is often a lot of HGV's, in which case its not always safe and practical, but I always remember to 'let faster drivers overtake'. That means I will often asses the picture behind me and if I feel it would be of benefit to pull into L1 or L2 and let someone past - I will do so as soon as possible, even if this means having to ease off a little bit to avoid getting too close to the vehicle in front in L1 or L2. Of course I try and avoid getting 'boxed in' but if theres someone behind me and wanting to get past I'd rather have him in front of me then behind getting frustrated.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:24 
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I met a lane hogger on Wednesday morning on the M62 westbound as I was heading for Halewood. The motorway was almost deserted at that time, so I came up behind the guy in lane 3, he didn't move over so I gave a brief flash of headlights. He then moved over to lane 2, let me go past, and then he returned to lane 3 while I headed for lane 1. :roll:

BTW it was a youngish guy in a BMW sports model, something like a Z3.

Best wishes all,
Dave.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:56 
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People learn best by doing, not by reading about it. I learnt to drive on motorways by watching other more experienced drivers - and never had any professional show me how it was supposed to be done. I suspect many other drivers are the same. Only by getting professionals to do it, can we be assured of the quality of the teaching.
Should be a part of the test, but no problem with a two-tier system - after all we already have this with automatic vehicles, and separate tests for HGV's, PSV's etc.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:02 
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On a recent trip down the M1 with my very recently qualified brother, he actually asked me - with complete sincerity - why I kept moving over to lane one after I finished overtaking. I died a little inside that day.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:44 
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I voted "Other".

I don't think that motoway driving should be part of the test although I took my test in Germany and did drive on the motoways prior to passing it was not part of the test that I should do so.

I do think good advertisemets about things like lane control, tailgating, fog light usage (not just motorways I grant but usefull nonetheless) and all the other things that we know are bad, but we could go further.

I would like to see a further pratical examination which may not be pass or fail but perhaps gives a competency rating which insurance companies could use for deceiding preumiums. As long as the cost of the exam is less than the potentail saving in insurance it gives more carrot, less stick with potentially large improvemnts.

Cheers

Paul


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 16:41 
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CarlP wrote:
On a recent trip down the M1 with my very recently qualified brother, he actually asked me - with complete sincerity - why I kept moving over to lane one after I finished overtaking. I died a little inside that day.

Looking on the bright side, at least he asked you rather than assume he should ignore what you do and copy what the majority are doing. If nothing else he's slightly better informed now.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 22:52 
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Short story

Years and years ago, returning from a festival in the small hours down the M5.

Completely empty motorway me doing ~90, I came up behind a Golf doing EXACTLY 70 in the fast lane. Not feeling antagonistic (hey, I'd been to a festival), I came up behind the Golf, and sat there for maybe thirty seconds until I realised they weren't going to pull over. I pulled right over to the inside lane, and undertook.

My reward? A prolonged blast on the Golf's horn, and flashing of lights until it had receded from view.

To this day I still consider this one of the most baffling displays of driving I have ever seen.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 23:18 
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Johnnytheboy wrote:
To this day I still consider this one of the most baffling displays of driving I have ever seen.

isn't it obvious? The speed limit is 70 so he's perfectly justified in doing that speed in the 'fast' lane as nobody could possibly want to overtake him.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 14:23 
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Now you put it like that....


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 19:51 
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lane hoggers get on my wick too especially since truckers arent allowed to use the third lane unless they are foreign in which case they can do what they like. i have been on the M3 with an artic overtaking in lane 2 and he was being overtaking by a foreign artic :shock:

i cannot condone this sort of behaviour by professionals :x

a more recent case (not trucks):
moderately busy motorway (M40 i think) and there is a vehicle doing around 50 in the inside lane. no problem except for the fact that it is not holding a straight line. then it pulls into the middle lane in front of me with no indication or reason. he decides to sit there til i blast the horn and flash lights at him. he moves over and i look across to find some old duffer pottering along READING A BOOK!!! :?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 23:52 
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Am a firm fan of a multi stage test: part one basic controls, IPSGA, COAST etc, then stage two is motorway after compulsary tution.

I don't think that the current system gives drivers any skills or tests for knowledge of m-way driving, there is the sop of fast road/dual carraigeway but at present is only optional.

Passed my test friday and drove down to Cornwall saturday, safe? Probably not didn't have much of an idea.

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