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Dual carriageway into single carriageway with traffic backed up on lane 1. Do you :-
Join L1 and wait passively. 9%  9%  [ 8 ]
Join L1 and wait passively. 9%  9%  [ 8 ]
Join L1 but suffer annoyance if someone goes past in L2 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Join L1 but suffer annoyance if someone goes past in L2 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Join L1 but attempt to 'block' L2 6%  6%  [ 5 ]
Join L1 but attempt to 'block' L2 6%  6%  [ 5 ]
Use L2 with some feeling of guilt 8%  8%  [ 7 ]
Use L2 with some feeling of guilt 8%  8%  [ 7 ]
Use L2 without hesitation 26%  26%  [ 23 ]
Use L2 without hesitation 26%  26%  [ 23 ]
Total votes : 88
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 Post subject: Queue or move?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 19:38 
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A classic situation with traffic backed up onto the end of a Dual Carriageway.
Traffic tends to queue up Lane 1 and leave Lane 2 clear. To 'belt' down Lane 2 and 'find' an opening seems like pushing-in to me but maybe it's making the best use of available road space. I'm not sure. What do you think & what do you do?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 20:08 
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Oh ho! The old "zip-merging" debate!!

Can't vote on this one as none of the options reflect my actions.

I do wait in lane 1 "passively" as I do feel as if I'm queue-jumping if I use L2. But I do leave adequate space in front of me to allow L2 users to nip in if needs be.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 20:51 
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continue down L2 indicating to join L1 from about 200m from merge point


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 21:28 
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Utilise all available road capacity, otherwise I am making those behind me wait for longer than necessary.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 21:52 
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I don't like it when drivers leave unnecessarily large gaps in front; this behaviour needlessly exaggerates the queue behind them when they eventually pull away.

If I see a hole ahead, I fill it (applying the zip merge).

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 22:30 
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RobinXe wrote:
Utilise all available road capacity, otherwise I am making those behind me wait for longer than necessary.

I dont understand the logic of this - the way I see it, is that if 100 cars have to pass through a restriction, then car 100 will pass through at the same time whether there are one lane or two leading up to the restriction.
It's like water trickling out of a hole in a bucket!

In fact, if the merge becomes forced, instead of at the earliest convenient point, it might require lane one to HALT to allow lane two to merge, thus delaying things slightly.
It is possible of course that car 102 passes 100 in lane one, then forces it's way in front, in which case car 100 WOULD take longer to pass by, because it merged into the flowing lane early :oops:

The most obvious aid to getting as much traffic through as quickly as possible, is to close up close as is safe, and get through the pinch point with as little delay as possible. Letting cars merge right in front of the restriction just serves to cause slow/start driving, which causes delay.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 22:53 
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It depends on the other factors on the road. It brings to mind a particular stretch passing round the south of Nottingham for me. There are lights right before the merge, so everyone merging into lane one early would just mean more people held up at the lights. Further back there is a left turning, if everyone gets into lane one then people who want to turn off there have to wait longer.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 23:21 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
It's like water trickling out of a hole in a bucket!


Yeah, but are we going to fill the whole bucket or just the left hand side?

If we were going to just fill the left hand side we'd have to find some silly water that thought the right hand side of the bucket was for 'queue jumpers'.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 23:40 
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I must admit what really boils my bunny are drivers who actively move into L2 to block traffic looking to merge further down the queue, as that causes 2 lanes of unnecessarily congested traffic.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 00:21 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
Ernest Marsh wrote:
It's like water trickling out of a hole in a bucket!


Yeah, but are we going to fill the whole bucket or just the left hand side?

If we were going to just fill the left hand side we'd have to find some silly water that thought the right hand side of the bucket was for 'queue jumpers'.

The difference is that water is fluid.
Try making a hole just a bit bigger than a ball bearing, then fill the bucket with ball bearings - you might lose one or two, then it clogs up! :)

If you can line up the ball bearings in a tube, they would run out the hole in no time!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 00:27 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
If you can line up the ball bearings in a tube, they would run out the hole in no time!


How far, exactly, before the start of the tube should they be lined up?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 00:33 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
Ernest Marsh wrote:
If you can line up the ball bearings in a tube, they would run out the hole in no time!


How far, exactly, before the start of the tube should they be lined up?


Quite! If we were able to take this one road in isolation, just a long, straight road with no other features then the simplified analogy would be very apt, I see where you're coming from Ernest.

The thing is, no road is in isolation, there are traffic lights and junctions, roundabouts and slip-roads, and traffic backing up can affect people who's intentions don't even take them to where the head of the queue is.

I think its pretty safe to generalise with 'Wherever there is congestion, and not all available road capacity is being used, there is the potential for people to be held up unneccesarily'. We can't know whether, behind us, that is occurring or not, but by using all available road capacity we can minimise the chances.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 03:01 
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I can't answer this one. As with so many things, it depends on the situation.

If the traffic is comparatively light, I tend to filter in early to lane 1 to ensure laminar flow at the intersection with minimal bunching. Provided there is light at the end of the tunnel, for the most part this is easiest.

If traffic is heavy, or if others are in L2 already, I will happily adopt L2 with a view to merginmg at or close to the "tube" entrance, but be happy to defer to anyone in L1 who has a point to prove.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 08:55 
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I believe the dilemma is cause by the mentality of most to start forming a queue in L1 only.
If this country actively encouraged (or even instructed) zip merging, any adverse feelings towards others would disappear and we would make the best use of available road space

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 08:56 
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L2 right to the end, then very un-pushy about merging.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 13:04 
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Grumpy Old Biker wrote:
I believe the dilemma is cause by the mentality of most to start forming a queue in L1 only.
If this country actively encouraged (or even instructed) zip merging, any adverse feelings towards others would disappear and we would make the best use of available road space

:yesyes: I have seen "use both lanes and merge at pinch point when busy" signs occasionally, but not recently.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 13:25 
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As I type, there are 9 people who have contributed to this thread (OK some didn’t cast their vote), none of which have advocated the ‘Join L1 but attempt to 'block' L2’ option.
So far 13 votes have been cast, surprisingly 3 of which are the ‘Join L1 but attempt to 'block' L2’ option.

:scratchchin:

I see an obvious correlation in that the people who ‘block’ are too embarrassed to discuss it.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 13:38 
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Roger wrote:
:yesyes: I have seen "use both lanes and merge at pinch point when busy" signs occasionally, but not recently.


So have I - and at motorway road works. How sensible is that? No wonder we hardly ever see it... :D

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 13:49 
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I'm a one, but I want to be a five :( I don't like upsetting other road users and I know this does.

to my mind it makes sense to use as much of road as possible and for the merging lanes to do so without fuss. However in this country you can count on all those on the inside lane to block entry for those merging.

I think most queues are not as such related to the physics of getting x number of cars through one section of road at a certain speed, more about our attitude with those that "push in", bad observation and ignorance.

If we all slowed gently on approach to a merge and opened up sufficient gap in front of us to allow another car, and merged in turn at the approach I don't think there's any need to come to a complete halt, but we frequently do.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 13:56 
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So far we have 7 people happily using L2 (number 5s) and 3 people (number 3s) who wish to block them.

This isn't good.

Would any of those of you who went for the third option care to explain why you would do that?

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