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Which would you respect more?
The person that let you out of a difficult junction. 76%  76%  [ 13 ]
The person that was driving near the limits of their car/themselves. 6%  6%  [ 1 ]
Both. 12%  12%  [ 2 ]
Neither. 6%  6%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 17
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 Post subject: Which gets more respect
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 13:22 
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The considerate driver, or the person going fast?

Another thread gave rise to this, and the best example I can think of is the following.

You are at a junction which has very limited visability, and someone slows (it's not a fast road) and lets you out.


You see someone driving their car fast, and just hitting the limits of it going around a corner.


Which gets more respect from you?

Would also appriciate comments.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 14:13 
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Loaded questions. Any result is irrelevant and belongs in the bin.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 14:23 
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Question one: Are the two above mutually exclusive, as you seem to be trying to suggest? Do you really believe that an expedient driver cannot also be a courteous driver? Perhaps this misconception gives rise to some of the ill-will directed at drivers who wish to drive faster than others.

Question two: What does it matter to road users which behaviours garner more 'respect', safety must be the top priority, no matter who likes it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 14:32 
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Quote:
Loaded questions. Any result is irrelevant and belongs in the bin.


Wrong. But if you don't agree, don't bother voting.

Quote:
Question one: Are the two above mutually exclusive, as you seem to be trying to suggest? Do you really believe that an expedient driver cannot also be a courteous driver? Perhaps this misconception gives rise to some of the ill-will directed at drivers who wish to drive faster than others.


No. Genuinely as it sounds. And there is the option there for both (and neither), so how could it be mutually exclusive?

Quote:
Question two: What does it matter to road users which behaviours garner more 'respect', safety must be the top priority, no matter who likes it.


For the exact reason you mention, safety. We all know that theres people that think driving at speed impresses others, and often the people that think that tend to think less about safety. This is just a light hearted poll to show that most people* are more impressed by manners and considerate driving than going as fast as possible.

It's *not* to villify people who go over the limit - notice I gave the example of someone hitting the limits of their car and thamselves, rather then just speeding. Which you can do and be safe. Pushing the limits of the car/yourself on public roads is generally not.


*I assume so anyway, I might be wrong :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 14:40 
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Pratnership wrote:
Quote:
Loaded questions. Any result is irrelevant and belongs in the bin.


Wrong. But if you don't agree, don't bother voting.



Right. That's why I would not bother to vote.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 14:52 
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unfortunately you havent specified the location.

a race driver on the limit is a spectacle to behold with some awe.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 15:06 
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Right. That's why I would not bother to vote.


Bye then.

Quote:
unfortunately you havent specified the location.

a race driver on the limit is a spectacle to behold with some awe.


Yeah, sorry.

This is general driving, i.e. on public roads. Not spectating at a track or suchlike.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 19:00 
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Pratnership wrote:
notice I gave the example of someone hitting the limits of their car and thamselves, rather then just speeding.


How would you know? Other than if they lost control of course.

If you see a car take a corner faster than you would/could in your vehicle that does not mean they are on the limit. Then again the car/driver do not necessarily have to be on the limit to be driving too fast.

I respect drivers that are obviously paying attention to what is happening around them.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 19:04 
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What exactly is the point of this poll?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 09:05 
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toltec wrote:

How would you know? Other than if they lost control of course.

If you see a car take a corner faster than you would/could in your vehicle that does not mean they are on the limit. Then again the car/driver do not necessarily have to be on the limit to be driving too fast.



Perhaps a slight squeaking of the tires, the back end wobble, many indicators it's approaching the edge of one of the limits (either the drivers of the cars).

Quote:
What exactly is the point of this poll?


I already said - I can't be any clearer than that. To quote myself 'This is just a light hearted poll to show that most people* are more impressed by manners and considerate driving than going as fast as possible.' Perhaps I was wrong in that assumption.

Might as well close it now, since it seems most people think I am one of the Daves, when in fact it could not be further from the truth. I do notice on this site that a lot of people automatically make that assumption sometimes whenever you say something about speed, and leap to the defence of going at speed. Good example is MFL's reply. Junking it without even bothering to give reason or discuss. It's part of the reason that's holding me back from becoming a member.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:55 
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Pratnership wrote:
toltec wrote:

How would you know? Other than if they lost control of course.

If you see a car take a corner faster than you would/could in your vehicle that does not mean they are on the limit. Then again the car/driver do not necessarily have to be on the limit to be driving too fast.



Perhaps a slight squeaking of the tires, the back end wobble, many indicators it's approaching the edge of one of the limits (either the drivers of the cars).



Other things can cause such indicators, some surfaces can cause tyre squeal at very low speeds such as a supermarket car park that I use, a wobble at the back may be down to a bump in the road and the way the car's suspension handles it. You could be right in your judgement by using these indicators, however you have to be careful in how you apply them. Perhaps some of the replies in this thread are down to the apparently judgemental weighting of the questions.

Good sig btw :)

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 18:46 
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I am apprecitive if you let me out of a difficult junction. I would respect your experiance. HoweverColin McRae got my respect (R.I.P).hanging on to a gravel road through a deeply wooded forestry track. Its on a different level.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 22:08 
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Pratnership wrote:
Good example is MFL's reply. Junking it without even bothering to give reason or discuss. It's part of the reason that's holding me back from becoming a member.


Much the same reason why I am hesitant about joining. Much as I support the putative aims of Safe Speed I do not wish to be associated with the attitudes of some of the J Bonnington Jagworths who post here

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 22:23 
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I have to admit I agree with pratnership; voting with your feet is a very effective way of expressing your disinterest.

One of my very early threads - asking people to 'fess up to their worst driving habit - was given short shrift by a somewhat pompous member (who has since vanished) who said "I fail to see the point of this". I suggested the same thing to him: that he merely didn't contribute, rather than contribute to say he wouldn't be doing so.

You (not directed at anyone in particular) can always start your own poll!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 09:42 
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Quote:
Perhaps some of the replies in this thread are down to the apparently judgemental weighting of the questions.


That's the problem - I don't think they are weighted at all. My opinion is that if some members here were not so defensive about being able to do speed (be it right for the conditions or not), then they wouldn't see it as such.

If it was a choice between the questions, I'd understand, but that's why I included the 'both' option.

I suppose I can slightly understand, I have seen a fair few come on and do the whole speed bashing thing. But still...

Robin seems to have automatically jumped to the conclusion that I was trying to say speed was bad, simply because another question was there that (I think) more people would be likely to say yes to. Dispite there being a 'both' answer.

Quote:
I have to admit I agree with pratnership; voting with your feet is a very effective way of expressing your disinterest.


Thing is, I'm not disinterested. Which makes it even worse. I have seen some very good advice on this forum, and while I am not sure about some of the claims (I won't say which, I don't have the time or inclanation to do the whole constant research and debate thing with Steve :lol: ), I reckon on the whole it's a good campaign.

Quote:
You (not directed at anyone in particular) can always start your own poll!


I don't see a problem with people disagreeing, it is a forum after all - but if they do at least say why!

Ah well, poll null and void because most people think I'm a Dave apperently :roll:

Maybe I should send them some GPS logs :lol:

Oh, and thanks. I like it too, it's something that has proven to improve my driving many years back.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:00 
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My only reservation is the word 'respect'.

I'm not sure if I 'respect' someone in the same way in the two scenarios, so IMHO it's a bit like comparing apples and oranges.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:14 
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Quote:
I'm not sure if I 'respect' someone in the same way in the two scenarios, so IMHO it's a bit like comparing apples and oranges.


I can see your point.

My main aim for this is to show someone who thinks that speed and acceleration is the be all and end all of driving doesn't impress everyone (and no, I'm not talking about racing, rally, F1 or anything like that). And that you will get a lot more respect on the roads by driving consideratly (and for those certain few, no that does not mean slowly!!!) and thinking of others.

Maybe I went about it in the wrong way, though I still think some of the replies were rather far off the mark.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:31 
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I think folks can now see the real point of this poll.

A point of logic: what do you X more: a or b (so far so good) or both or neither :?
:wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:52 
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You what Steve?

It's not 'x' or 'a' or any other unknown. The examples and situations are there.

And don't try and confuse it with 'logic' arguments.

The both or either still applies. You can have respect for both actions, or neither of them.

I get slated for making out it's mutually exclusive, and then slated for having the option to choose both.

One could be forgiven for thinking you are here solely for the purpose of having arguments. I've stated exactly why I'm here.

Just reaffirms my decision about membership now.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:44 
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Pratnership wrote:
You can have respect for both actions, or neither of them.

Of course, but you can't have more respect for both (or neither); that word is what throws me. Had you left it out it would have made sense.

Which do you like more: apples or oranges, or both? :?
Granted I'm probably being pedantic, but this this is a needed quality for wading through the spun stats of road safety.

You have a PM

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