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What % of ea journey ? & How often?
80-90% 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
70-80% 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
60-70% 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
50-60% 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
40-50% 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
30-40% 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
20-30% 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
10-20% 6%  6%  [ 1 ]
2-10% 17%  17%  [ 3 ]
1% 17%  17%  [ 3 ]
0% 11%  11%  [ 2 ]
Other % please state... 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Every trip - 100% 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Almost every trip approx 80-99% 6%  6%  [ 1 ]
Frequently approx 65-79% 6%  6%  [ 1 ]
Occasionally approx 45-64% 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Only on occasion trips approx 25-44% 11%  11%  [ 2 ]
Seldom 10-24% 11%  11%  [ 2 ]
Extremely rare 2-9% 6%  6%  [ 1 ]
neigh never 1% 6%  6%  [ 1 ]
Never 6%  6%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 18
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 21:28 
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PeterE wrote:
Occasionally I find myself thinking "I don't remember driving that last half-mile", but I think the lizard brain kicks in and tends to keep you safe.

Totally agree. I'd suggest ,that the longer you drive, the more old lizard comes into play . I'd suggest that a driving brain is like a computer . After a few/lots of years, the lizard takes over and various functions are routinely done, without us being aware . IRQ are done, but one irq IS ALWAYS ACTIVE - the something different one. KID on scooter getting close to the road/ car a tad oner the line etc etc. I had it to night, kid on scooter ,getting close to road. I didn't notice it, but my arm hit horn, and my feet hit brakes. Then seconds later I realised I'd reacted .

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 18:55 
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botach wrote:
PeterE wrote:
Occasionally I find myself thinking "I don't remember driving that last half-mile", but I think the lizard brain kicks in and tends to keep you safe.

Totally agree. I'd suggest ,that the longer you drive, the more old lizard comes into play . I'd suggest that a driving brain is like a computer . After a few/lots of years, the lizard takes over and various functions are routinely done, without us being aware . IRQ are done, but one irq IS ALWAYS ACTIVE - the something different one. KID on scooter getting close to the road/ car a tad oner the line etc etc. I had it to night, kid on scooter ,getting close to road. I didn't notice it, but my arm hit horn, and my feet hit brakes. Then seconds later I realised I'd reacted .

The lizard brain developed out of our study and interest in Herpetology ! :) We observed the lizards responses to feeding (mostly) and their other-wise move only when necessary approach to life unless unsure when they would literally just shut their eyes as if, if I cannot see it then I cannot be scared ! Anyway ...we noticed how when 'action' stations were called for a seemingly sleepy lizard reacted so fast it was hard to imagine that they had truly had time to think! So we started to wonder how this might be ...

That's why he called it lizard brain! :D

The lizard bit is the brain learning (if you like) auto rapid response/s and then it becomes actioned as soon as anything requires it.
When we learn to drive and as our driving careers develop we learn many new and more involved responses. They become habit for many things and to a degree (I think) the 'hence' why in some cases we cannot recall the last section, as we did things out of habit and no danger threatened. had something happened we are immediately alerted.
The horn is a prime example of 'immediate reaction' ... I practice it and often have mine 'covered' waiting for that 'slight additional danger' that will demand an instant toot. That feels like it's a real instant reaction and yep I too would say 'when was the instruction sent' as I am so 'ready' it barely has an 'order'.

Toltec wrote:
botach wrote:
PeterE wrote:
Occasionally I find myself thinking "I don't remember driving that last half-mile", but I think the lizard brain kicks in and tends to keep you safe.

This was one of paul's ideas. After seeing it, I've often thought of it ,and agree that ,especially in the older drivers , it plays an increasing part in our driving.

Very occasionally I find that I have started to react to something, then cancelled or amended that reaction before finally realising what it was I was reacting to. The only way I can think of this is that there are several layers of processing, some movement or unexpected change triggers a fast response, in the time it takes for the physical movement to occur there has been enough time to make further observations in order to determine the required degree of intervention, a little after this you become consciously aware of the situation. I also think that when you make observations you are constantly building a set hazard responses, you see a car waiting at a junction and there is a possibility it may pull out, if there is any movement from that direction in your peripheral vision while looking at something else you begin to respond without having to think about it.
The section I have underlined I think is really most interesting. I think that because we are consciously looking for hazards we build up the 'reaction tool box'. We see many others fail to react to things that we would have long since allowed for because they were (probably not) thinking about it yet !

Toltec wrote:
When you are driving consciously you are constantly teaching yourself how to deal with new scenarios, it is like you are developing a mental shorthand so you can scan the picture and develop responses to a greater degree of complexity within the same time frame. You learn to see more subtle and varied cues without having to consciously process through a list.
I like the mental shorthand idea I think that sums it up beautifully ! :lol:
I find driving very easy and loads of fun and thoroughly enjoy it ... I wonder if this is in part because I have many 'tools' to attribute to all the differing scenarios ?

Toltec wrote:
Over the past few days I have tried to make a point of noticing and remembering, at intervals, if I was aware of driving the last section of road. Think of it as metadata for the drive, I might not really remember the drive because nothing interesting occurred, but I do remember having checked that I remembered the last five minutes. What I think happens is that I am conscious of what I am doing while driving, however I am not trying to learn anything new as nothing interesting happens so it is all occurring in short term memory. Conversely I could give you a long description of what happened during a 3 - 4 second period on a specific section of a sprint circuit I drove several years ago.

I can still describe all the of the last 40 miles that I have driven so far this week. Although I agree as time passes I recall less of the smaller details, but just after a journey I can recall masses more, and can describe the entire journey in great detail, including car colours (not as good on makes - especially these days !) ...
How many of us have tried or use commentary driving?
I have done it a number of times and will test myself but it has been a while ... I'll try again soon !
Do these things and this interest that we have in driving / riding as well as we can help us avoid (?too much?) daydreaming/auto-pilot ?

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 Post subject: Daydreaming & Auto-pilot
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 02:34 
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1st of all, DayDreaming & Auto-Pilot are, to my mind, two completely different mental states.

DayDreaming is a completely unproductive mental state roughly equivalent to dreaming while asleep, one's body is accomplishing nothing productive, except possibly to betray that the daydreamer is paying ZERO attention to any of their external sensory processes. In other words, they can only be considered to be here physically; they are not 'here' mentally.
I NEVER DRIVE IN THIS STATE, and I submit that anyone who is physically driving while mentally driving to a place and time that does not 100% correlate to where and when they are at that precise moment, is placing themselves, and everyone and everything in the immediate vicinity in mortal jeopardy.

[As I'm still driving a taxicab,] the vast majority of fares/passengers are completely disinterested in 'making good time'; that is, they've left way more than enough time for me to complete the trip so that no extra attention to driving is required, it's ok if I get them there 20mins late, conversations about annoying subjects and concepts are still given full attention and consideration, 'don't spill my coffee', etc

On rare occasion, however, I'm asked to make 'good time', to which I respond:
"I'll do my best, but the only things I am responsible for are harm to others [including myself], and damage to property, neither of which I am willing to risk or allow. That said, I know why I was selected for this particular fare; I'll do my best to get you there as safely and as quickly as possible."

The mental state I then enter into could be considered 'Auto-Pilot'.
1. I can barely speak, and will most likely not remember most of what anyone said - though I will usually notice if asked to 'slow down', or things of the kind that are directly related to my 'mission'.
2. Near as I can tell, I've no thoughts or emotions, except self-preservation, evidence of which usually does not exceed driving so as not to allow anyone to get hurt, or anything to be broken, except maybe a traffic 'rule' or two here and there [or not; such 'rules' become meaningless].
3. Generally, I don't remember traffic control devices or road features which function so, unless they are highly unusual and/or absolutely ESSENTIAL to avoiding harm or property damage - most are not.
(My rule of thumb: 'red lights' may be treated as 'stop signs', 'stop signs' may be treated as 'yield signs', 'yield signs' may be treated as 'merge signs', and 'merge signs' are redundant.)
4. I'd assume this is the mental state Christopher Adam Tang (aka AfroDuck) was in during his under-30-minute loops around NYC.

I'd like to believe that the difference between me and AfroDuck, is that I am NOT trying to drive as quickly as possible, but I've driven the same route in about 36 minutes in non-rush hour traffic, safely.

Toltec referred to a state of 'no mind'. If he was referring to what Bruce Lee meant, then Toltec and I may have slightly differing ideas of 'no mind', but that is nonetheless another way of referring to what I'm doing when I'm trying to make good time.
I don't see how I could enter this state during a traffic jam; traffic jams are all too boring.

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The Rules for ALL ROAD USERS:
1) No one gets hurt
2) Nothing gets hit, except to protect others; see Rule#1
3) The Laws of Physics are invincible and immutable - so-called 'laws' of men are not
4) You are always immediately and ultimately responsible for your safety first, then proximately responsible for everyone's
Do not let other road users' mistakes become yours, nor yours become others
5) The rest, including laws of the land, is thoughtful observation, prescience, etiquette, decorum, and cooperation


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 01:57 
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They are different and this is of course the point. :) The differences are interesting as are the alert states too. :) (Good to see you posting - hope you will be back soon).

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