Safe Speed Forums

From another topic, taken out of context by me:


Where do people stand on speed limits? I can't see any possible justification for them aside from:

Guiding inexperienced drivers
Forcing people to use less petrol
Some very atypical locations, such as road works.

Now with the first, frankly we shouldn't be letting drivers on to the road unless they are experienced enough to select a vaguely sensible test. The driving test is too easy. With the second, surely all you need is increased petrol tax (god no!!!) or just leave it for the moment and let the invisible hand of supply and demand sort it out.

So how to people stand on speed limits? I notice the official policy of safe speed is to keep them but enforce them sensibly. Why? Administrative convenience?

You have stated three good reasons to maintain speed limits.

The fourth is to *allow* prosecution with an easy-to-prove offence when, in the opinion of the trained policeman, the speed is being used with menace (ok - several definitions possible but you know what I mean). This is "sensible enforcement".

A further benefit is that speed limits, if applied correctly, convey useful information to all drivers about the road environment and hazard density.

Remember that in built-up areas the maximum safe speed is determined much more by the hazard density than by the physical characteristics of the road.

There are plenty of urban roads where, if traffic flow allowed, you could physically drive at 70 mph without any difficulty, but to do so would be highly irresponsible. How would people be prosecuted under such circumstances?

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

IOW, for expedience in bringing some dangerous drivers to task. Laudable as that may be, speed limits are no longer used is that way and the current practice of pedantic enforcement of speed limits to the detriment of road safety makes (IMO) speed limits counter-productive and more trouble than they're worth. IMO, dangerous driving should be punished, but the fixation on whether you're travelling faster than some arbitrary datum does nothing to achieve that end.

FWIW, I now adhere to speed limits with almost religious fervour. I do so because my priorities have changed from road safety to preservation of my license. I am less safe because of it, and have no doubt that I'm not alone in this.

WRT fuel savings: my fuel consumption has increased by over ten percent since I started driving to the speed limits. Mainly, this is because of the many rediculously low speed limits strategically placed at the bottoms of valleys near my home. Such limits force me to brake all the way down the valley and use lots of power to accelerate up the other side, which is not the most efficient way to drive.

So, that's two of the four reasons debunked.

JMHO,

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Will

These are my three reasons:

1) To firmly guide inexperienced and underskilled drivers away from exceeding safe limits by wild margins.
2) To provide a ready means of prosecution of those who use speed dangerously.
3) To provide a "standard warning" of expected hazard density.

I rate number 1 as by far the most important. We have many millions of underskilled or inexperienced drivers. Of course, this is the reason that speed limits appear to be set on the low side for the experienced majority - we need the inexperienced to travel more slowly.

Raising driving standards just won't do the job - we'll still have loads of new drivers coming along.

But we might work towards a point where drivers of a certain standard could earn a speed limit exemption.

Make sense?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

No. But enforcement of speed limits needs to be done with some intelligence.

Getting rid of the fixed penalty system might be a good idea. If every speeding case had to go in front of a court that would force some discretion in how they were handed out.

Speed limit exemption would suit me fine, but how would/could this be policed?

I'd be happy with an "A" plate - a metal thing that fits at the end of the number plate. I take it with me if I change vehicle. Penalties for wrong display of A plates. (probably rear number plate only).

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

The A plate idea would be good I think - earn it with X years of points free plus a rigorous test, lose it if you get any points.

I think one takes a voluntary advanced test. You get a score out of 100. If the score is high enough you can use an "A" plate.

This has a number of side benefits - everyone who doesn't score 100% knows that they have more to learn. When the other chap in the pub has a better score you want to improve.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Would you see this as applying to all roads, or to NSLs only (assuming NSLs were properly set in the first place)?

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

NSLs, and there might be an "A" driver upper speed limit too. Maybe in time it could be extended.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

An A plate/license sounds like a good idea, but as I've said before there are some problems that need to be overcome.

If the A is a permanent fixture of the plate, how do we prevent a non-A license holder in the same family driving the car and abusing the higher limit privilege? Equally, what about when an A license holder wants to use the car of another family member? Would a car with a non-removable A plate be a more attractive target for some thieving bastard who wants to cane it round the neighbourhood before setting it on fire, or would it still depend on what he knows how to steal without much effort? Anyhow, seems like they really need to be transferable from vehicle to vehicle.

But if it's to be a removable part of the plate how would we ensure that they aren't stolen for use by others who are not entitled to use them? Sure they can be taken off and kept in the house or whatever, but sooner or later somone will forget and leave it attached in the Marks and Sparks car park, and it won't be there when they get back. And if it's not attached properly the damn thing might drop off and end up on the side of the road to be picked up by the local boy racer (though intelligent design would probably sort that one out).

Next problem is enforcement. It would have to be hard enough to forge that a trafplod seeing one could be pretty certain it was the genuine articel. Also, it would have to be obvious enough that the trafplod could see it from a reasonable distance. You wouldn't want them tearing out of their observation laybys on the motorway after seeing a car doing 80 (or whatever), only to catch up and see the A plate that means they were actually allowed to drive that fast.

It would also mean a lot more work for the partnerships looking at Gatso pics to remove any A plated cars from the NIP pile. Hmmm. On reflection, who gives a shit about that? It wouldn't do any harm to force them to actually check the photos. Might even stop daft NIPs going out for ancient Marinas breaking the sound barrier or whatever it was.

I'm not saying these couldn't all be overcome, or that I'm against the idea. But I do think that it's not a good substitute for intelligent enforcement at the discretion of a trained trafplod. I can't think how it would work in practice without using one of basingwerk's super dooper RF systems that let's the car know that an A license holder is driving so it can transmit that to the plods and scameras..... what am I saying?

Bad Gatsobait! Bad!

Whack
Whack
Whack
Whack

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein