Safe Speed Forums

Over the last few years, there have been numerous new road schemes to narrow our roads or to add humps and other obstacles, whose only purpose is to slow the traffic down. Whether this is for safety reasons, or is a package of measures designed to deter motorists, is a separate issue. I am interested to find out how you the SafeSpeed community feel about this.

Look at the picture - it's a stretch of the A4130 in Henley-on-Thames known as The Fair Mile. Imagine you were driving along this road, which is dead straight for a mile and, as you can see, has very few openings onto the road or other hazards. The speed limit here is 60.

Now, imagine you're stuck behind a tractor or perhaps a slow car doing only 40. Would you overtake, or would you sit it out - perhaps adding a minute or two to your journey time? Now please answer my poll!

I replied "yes - under any circumstances", but of course I've assumed that it's intended to mean "if safe to do so".

There's nothing in the Highway Code to say that one should not use a shaded section of road, and I wouldn't class overtaking as "disobeying" road markings.

If they wanted to ban overtaking there would be double white lines or a designated "no overtaking" zone.

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Paul Smith
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As with Paul, if safe to overtake then my answer is Yes.

The white lines around hatched area are not solid, so as Highway Code stands you are allowed to overtake.

I see the back of a warning sign in photo - is it for junction behind where photo taken? If so, then does junction have right turn area in hatched part of road?, Then would add that i would not overtake on that part of road.

As others have said, you're allowed to enter hatched areas with dotted lines if safe to do so, so that wouldn't deter me from overtaking on this stretch.

Rule 109 of the Highway Code says:

109. Areas of white diagonal stripes or chevrons painted on the road. These are to separate traffic lanes or to protect traffic turning right.

• If the area is bordered by a solid white line, you should not enter it except in an emergency.
• If the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so.
• If the area is on a motorway and consists of a triangle bounded by continuous white lines marked by chevrons, you MUST NOT enter it except in an emergency.

And the IAM advanced driving manual says:

"The sanction implied (in the Highway Code) allows you to consider overtaking - but remember that this white line system is generally used on roads with a bad accident record. Overtake at a moderate pace and in such a way that the drivers you pass are not taken by surprise. "

Here's another example on the same road west of Nettlebed where the uphill overtaking lane on a 2+1 section has been hatched out:

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

What's the point of that, FFS?

Indeed. Most people assume that you're not supposed to drive on those hatched areas at all. Just last week, driving in the same direction as shown by PeterE's picture, when I arrived at the end of the hatched area, a car coming the other way was pulling out to overtake. I was sprayed with dirt and grit as he went past. This had accumulated because of relatively few vehicles driving on the hatched area.

On the other side of the coin, we have the situation whereby a driver following the white car in PeterE's picture might assume that because the centre is hatched out, it's OK for him to cross the double white line to pass a slow mover. I have never crossed that double white line myself, but I've seen people do it.

The result of all these new road markings? Total confusion it seems. At first I was surprised that all votes cast in this poll were for the same option. Now it's starting to make sense.

It is now dualled, but the "Thanet Way" - A299 from the Kent end of the M2 down to Ramsgate, used to have three lanes, the centre one of which was affectionately called the "suicide" lane.

On occasions, a certain individual used to be in the far right lane to overtake - when there was *nothing* coming towards him. God the flashes he used to receive for that "wreckless" behaviour

Three guesses as to which way I voted

If "yes - under any circumstances", means"if safe to do so" then my answer is yes - but it would depend on the speed of the vehicle ahead. Someone mentioned the sign on the opposite side, but is that a cyclist or a motorcyclist wearing hi vis ahead, and would overtaking put him in a hazardous position - i suspect that at a differential of 20mph ( 60 -40) it might.

Yes, without doubt, when safe to do so. In my opinion the narrowing of major trunk roads and the installation of "central" bollards has increased accidents where drivers are frustrated and take risks.

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Still round the corner there may wait,
A new road or a secret gate. ( Camera )
J. R. R. Tolkien (1892 - 1973)

[quote="ObserverWhat's the point of that, FFS?[/quote]

The hatching was added after locals protested following several very serious accidents at the top of the hill (not far behind the car from which the photo was taken). The result is that we now have what was a safe overtaking opportunity made a lot more dangerous because the hatched area doesn't get used often, or cleaned.

I could never see what made this area so dangerous before. In my view the previous markings and signage were very clear. As is normally the case the accidents were the result of poor driving, not speed.

The worst of the accidents involved the infamous missing red mini, by the way.

Notice how often this kind of hatching is extended out from roundabouts to discourage fast accelerating vehicles from overtaking slower-accelerating ones on exit from the roundabout.

On winding counrty roads, exits from roundabouts often provide the only safe overtaking opportunity.

Frustrating, and likely to prompt people to attempt more dangerous overtaking manoevers further down the road.

In both of those pictures it is legal to overtake (With the obvious exception of the double white line bit) though in the first you can just see the start of a right turn area for the oncoming traffic at the very right of the picture.

I have always taken the broken hatched areas to mean "No overtaking unless you actually understand traffic law" or "overtake muppets here" and give you a much better chance of completing the manouvre before they notice, get pissed off and accelerate to leave you stranded on the wrong side of the road.

These hatches area are basically a safer way of bringing back the old "Suicide Lanes" and in the second example prevent you having to undertake a muppet who has decided to sit in lane 2.

Of course, the ones which are only 3-4' wide are bloody annoying pointless wastes of road space as they are not quite wide enough to get a car down.

I believe these hatched areas do reduce casualties. They discourage overtaking by all but the confident, knowledgable motorist.

The A69 Carlisle to Newcastle is a case in point. It has numerous red phantom islands. Safety has been increased by the reduction of overtaking due to the presence of the islands, but safety is now threatened because of the increased number of overtakes due to increased enforcement of 40mph HGV limit on good trunk roads .

Unfortunately, as has been said, the lack of use and cleaning of the hatched area means it gets full of debris. (I've suffered a blowout by overtaking in precisely these circumstances).

But for the 99% of use who can overtake safely, and strive to maintain a decent lateral safety gap, they are an irritant.

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Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian

Perhaps someone can help me. What is the difference in what is expected of me between chevrons down the middle, and a solid double line?

You only really see chevrons around motorway sliproads and the likes, bordered by a solid white line and you are not allowed to cross that solid white line and enter the chevronned area.

This bit of thread is about hatched sections.. if the hatched section has a solid white border then again you are not allowed to enter it, but if the side closest to you has a broken white border (eg: - - - - - - - ) then you are allowed to enter it and use it for eg. overtaking.

(from memory, could be wrong)

Depends...

If the chevronned area is bordered by solid lines, then treat it as a solid DWL system, because that is effectively what it is, and it is against the law to enter it (although certain exceptions apply)

If the chevronned area is bordered by broken white lines, then you can enter this chevronned area if it is safe to do so.

In the picture below...



the chevronned area is designed

to provide lateral separation between cars, and
to discourage overtaking,

probably as a result of some horrendous head ons due to dodgy overtakes.

However it is in reality no different to a broken line in the centre of the road, and safe overtakes can be carried out legally - as long as you don't exceed 60mph of course

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Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian

Thank you!

I must admit I had never even noticed there were broken and unbroken lines bordering chevrons.