Safe Speed Forums

basingwerk,

In response to your first question, I believe SafeSpeed answered it far better than I could and I fully support his list of driver types.

M3RBMW wrote:
stupid .... gibberish ...

basingwerk wrote:
You may not have noticed, but I do try to keep personal insults to a minimum.

I'm terribly sorry basingwerk for this incredibly vicious attack on my part. I apologise profusely for calling you stupid and retract it immediately. But, gibberish, how can you take offence at that. This is not a personal attack but merely my opinion of the fact that you are not prepared to consider all of the facts and continue to pour out the same drivel. Oops, sorry, I meant "things".

basingwerk wrote:
That opinion is not in accordance with my own. Would you like me to expand on that, or would it be 'stupid .... gibberish ... '?

I believe my comments were self explanatory and your opinion is worthless anyway, oops did I say that out loud.

It's also quite interesting that whenever we, as a group or individually, make some comment about driving slowly you jump in with applause but when we talk about driving sensibly at a pace where everyone is safer, you won't have a bar of it.

I am also sorry that our time difference is 11 hours and so I tend to be way behind on responding but I do eventually.

Finally, basingwerk, you would have to one of the most entertaining people on the forum. You get everyone exited and help to keep the momentum going. Without people like you it is possible that we would not be so vocal, but then again without people like you we wouldn't have these stupid speed cameras (apologies to the cameras for that outburst) or these stupidly low speed limits (sorry for calling the signs stupid).

Keep up the good fight, we all enjoy a laugh.

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Ross

Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!

...better a woozle? than an a**hole!

Of course. You are no chump, Ross! If it wasn't for me, this forum would be a camera-haters mutual recognition society. Some people are more easily deceived than others and get fired up at the least thing (look at poor millsee, for goodness sake!). Some just want a cozy boys club as an alternative to going down the pub and duking it out over a few beers. I guess it’s a guy thing, all cam shafts and sprockets. That's OK, but don't expect me to listen in to the petrol-head platitudes and not pipe up. I try to contribute things that have occurred to me as a useful topics of discussion, and I don't like abusive drivers or industrial despoliation at all. That's the bottom line. Have a nice weekend down under.

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I stole this .sig

I don't know, anetholes are useful things. Or did you mean something else?

Pronunciation: (an'u-thOl"), [key]
—n. Chem., Pharm.
a white, crystalline powder, C10H12O, having a sweet taste, obtained from anise or fennel oils or synthesized: used chiefly in perfumes, dentifrices, flavoring, synthesis of anisaldehyde, and in medicine as an antiseptic and carminative. Also called anise camphor.

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I stole this .sig

...but big bloody blue/grey, yellow and orange cameras blotting the landscape are fine, as long as they protect your purported interests.

Hypocrite is the word that comes to mind....

You should tell millsee about 'Hypocrite'. He hasn't used that one yet, and he is beginning to repeat himself!

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I stole this .sig

Good God! I've fallen into his trap!

I'm troll-feeding"£$%^&*()_+ hell!

No more.

[sings]Oh basingwerk[/sings]:)I'm sure you'll still answer. Don't let me down mate. Also waiting for your thoughts on traffic calming measures simply moving the problem to a different area.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

OK, it's Friday afternoon and I've fixed a bug in some software that was really, really stressing me out over the last week. So I'll give you your fun.



The categories were off the cuff I admit. I thought the "masochistic attention seeking type" explains all those chumps who get done twice by the same camera!



I think we could include boy-racers in the anti-social git group (that is what it is for) but I think you are right, crooks and 'designed' criminality (get away cars, car thieves) could form a new group.



That is a good one and is duly listed.



Yes, indeed, the emergency speeders. I was one of these one. The drummer in my band left is cymbals at home, and we had to get from Liverpool to Wales and back in an hour before a gig. I think these could all be loosely classed as 'due to extenuating circumstance', except the bloke with the curry problem - there could be a new offence for this called shitting without due care and attention, or driving under the influence of vindaloo.



All of this is very well, but there is no way to tell if a given speeder is doing it for a given reason (with the exception of the pregnant lady who has the birth certificate as proof). So if a person says he speeds because he or she thinks the experts are no longer in charge, it could very be the case that such a person could, in reality, be in the chump class or anti-social git class. There is no way to tell. The point is, though, that reasons do exist. And many speeders deserve to be caught. It could be that others do not deserve harsh treatment, but I have asked for SafeSpeed's manifesto, and it seems to be 'roll it back to how it was', with no middle ground at all. This is unlikely to ever happen, in my view, so I want to know what is the best expectation. But all I get is 'roll it back to how it was'.



In an extreme case, yes I'd give up and do the right thing, whatever it is. Right now, we have a process to change things, and you have ways to have your say. I think things are not a black as they are painted, and it is best to stay within the speed limit and make your case where you can.

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I stole this .sig

Yes, I know what you mean. I have opened a thread on 'contention' but SafeSpeed has dis'd it, so I am a bit reluctant to reveal my thoughts on this in case I get another beating.

But I'm basingwerk, so what the hell do I care if the world isn't ready! OK, from the top. One intent of traffic calming measures is to manage contention and it’s counter part, congestion. That is, different road users competing for the same, limited resource. When you want to make it safer for pedestrian road users, one idea is to make a route less attractive to drivers by adding penalties, in the form of humps, charges, cameras, limits, zig zags or whatever you can dream up. The same idea can also slow cars down (rather than divert them), which is another matter which we can talk about some other time. In this case, drivers will avoid the measures if there is a 'better' route. So for the purposes of this argument, the very intent is to move the problem. This implies that traffic calming measures have to be 'tuned' to identify and remove round robin effects, where the problem goes here and there or even round in circles, the intent being to move it to a through road or discourage journeys entirely.

I think that’s right?

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I stole this .sig

You're right to highlight this particular shortcoming in the information Safe Speed publishes. I've worked on such documents, but none has been completed nor published. I'll work on a brief clear web version and publish it as soon as possible. I do know the content in fine detail, but the fine detail is part of the problem - the documents I have worked on have become unwieldy. It's a problem I have to solve, and solve it I will.

Thanks.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

You are from Stockport, so I have to be nice to you. Woozle is much nicer than the T word. Do you ever go drinking in Cheadle? I used to go to a Robinson's pub there, the Star, I think it was. Also, the Griffin, down in Heaton ?Mersey?. I worked for EDS at Abney Hall, you must know it? We did oil rig control systems. Sorry, I'm off-topic ...

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I stole this .sig

[Hurt look]It wasn't supposed to be a trap or a piss take you know.[/Hurt look]

I see now, though the wording implies a motive that I think probably isn't there. I'd put 'em in the "thumb in bum" group that you dislike so much (rightly so, IMO - driver inattention is a problem that I think we can all agree on). I mean, you have to be pretty inattentive to be zapped twice in the same place. That said, I don't think it's a large group. I know loads of people who have or have had points, but not one was caught in the same place twice.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if you went to court over a speeding ticket presumably you could plead guilty but with mitigating circumstances. I wouldn't like to say whether forgotten cymbals would impress the courts as much as a thawing kidney, but if no real danger was presented in the dash to get them I'd hope a reasonable bench would be pretty lenient. IIRC curry-man got a fine and a lot of points, but they stopped short of actually banning him because of the circumstances.

:lol:

Exactly the problem. There is no way to tell why someone is speeding, well not remotely anyway. Unfortunately we are largely relying on remote monitoring to achieve that, which we both agree it's simply not capable of. The result is the one size fits all 10%+2 generates ticket approach. Travelling at a truly dangerous speed is by and large treated in the same way as travelling at a speed that may well have been safe in the circumstances, and travelling at a dangerous speed that is lower than the posted limited is not being dealt with at all. Worse still, due to the nature of the system and it's reliance on sending NIPs by post, no action at all is taken after an offence for as much as two weeks. Sorry, but I think that's just nuts.

I'm afraid I don't share your pessimism, and within reason putting things back the way they were seems like a good idea. That means twice as many trafplods (sorry about the cost ), more varied advertising campaigns rather than just speed speed speed all the time, and chucking some money at engineering out dangerous features on the road where possible. On the toerh hand, I wouldn't want to have all the plod's shiny toys taken away. Just a seriously big re-think on how they're used.

Are you saying you would be in the "I know better" group then? It sounds that way, and in that hypothetical situation you almost certainly would know better. But here's the problem. While I don't for a minute think that we're on a slippery slope to this becoming real life, the instant we begin to set speed limits for motivations other than road safety we run into trouble. Rather than almost all drivers being within the limit we suddenly have a large group who are commiting an offence without actually doing anything different.

It's an interesting response though. Like the rest of us, you try to drive legally. But with a metaphorical gun to your head I can see that safe is your real priority, as I've always believed it would be. We may still disagree on where 'safe' is to be found on the speedo. My belief is that it isn't there at all. Anyhow, that wasn't really my point. What I'm driving at is that limits must be realistic or we make offenders out of people who aren't doing anything wrong.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

Thank you


The Star is actually a Hydes pub, but there are four Robinsons pubs in Cheadle.


Yes, I know the Griffin well - it's only a mile down the road from where I live. My local is the Nursery in Heaton Norris.

I'm a member of the Campaign for Real Ale so am well versed in the local pub scene - see www.stockportpubs.org.uk

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Isn't it in the nature of virtually any campaign that you push for certain policies in the knowledge that you're very unlikely to achieve your entire agenda, but that you may move things in the general direction you want?

Therefore any moves towards, for example:

• reducing the overall number of speed cameras
• restoring consistency and the 85th percentile principle to speed limit setting
• increasing police traffic patrols
• increasing the profile and take-up of higher-level driving training

would be seen as steps in the right direction.

As you can see, I've cracked those pesky list tags now

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Now avalable in a preliminary version at:

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/manifesto.html

Please let's avoid discussing the content in this thread. Use the comments links provided on the page instead.

It isn't brief really - it's come out at over 4,700 words.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

The overall picture here is that the majority of people dont want idiots racing down their back streets, this is why we have speed bumps, and why more and more will come.

If you dont want to damage your car, or you health, dont drive over them faster than 5mph.

All this whining about them is never going to work, no one likes driving over them, but most people want them in their street, it raises property values, quietens or in my case deadens noise, makes the street a safe environment, and even cuts down on crime(since it makes your area more of a neibourhood than a rat run). What voter doesent want that?

All this lefty winging about it , from boy racers that should have long ago grown up, will get them nowhere. Humps are here to stay.

Oh no...he's back

And he is even dafter......

Check this link out..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/news/barnet_speedbumps.shtml

Speed bumps here to stay....not in Barnet

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Speed camera policy Kills

And I don't want kids on quadbikes using speed bumps as launch ramps but that is exactly what I witnessed last week.

Yep...don't forget kids on BMXs, skateboards etc.

Road safety....don't make me laugh...

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Speed camera policy Kills