Safe Speed Forums

The campaign for genuine road safety
It is currently Tue Apr 21, 2026 20:04

View unanswered posts | View active topics


Board index » News » Road Safety, Speed Camera and Policy News

All times are UTC [ DST ]



Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 1
  [ 14 posts ] 
  Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
Dixie
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 16:32 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 19:50
Posts: 3369
Location: Lost in the Wilderness
BBC News

Quote:
Dangerous drivers 'get licences'

A legal loophole allows potentially dangerous learner drivers to get licences, the BBC has discovered.
In August, 2005, Chantelle Burridge, 17, was killed in an accident where the driver had nine penalty points on his provisional licence.

However, the 20-year-old was still allowed to drive and passed his driving test five weeks before the accident.

The New Driver's Act 1997 puts all new drivers who pass their test on two years probation.

If they amass six penalty points in that time (rather than the normal 12), they will have their licence revoked.

However, there are no similar provisions for learners driving on a provisional licence.

Nick Freeman, a lawyer well known for defending high profile figures such as Ronnie O'Sullivan and Sir Alex Ferguson, told Radio 4's Law in Action: "It's a loophole that needs to be plugged.

"There isn't any fairness in the system when you can amass 11 points on a provisional licence, take the test and drive."

Change demanded

He added: "We need an amendment to the existing legislation. There should be parity with new drivers driving on a full licence."

Chantelle's father Martyn is pressing the Department for Transport for a change in the law.

He said: 'Whatever we do isn't going to bring Chantelle back but if you ban someone for six points once they've got their full licence, you should do the same if they get six points on a provisional."

He favours a three-year delay to the taking of a driving test for new drivers who get six points on a provisional licence.

The Department of Transport issued a statement which said: "The Department of Transport is looking carefully at whether there is a case for automatic disqualification of provisional licence holders before they accrue 12 points."

_________________
Useless laws weaken necessary laws.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
jamie_duff
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 16:45 
Offline
User

Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 15:14
Posts: 420
Location: Aberdeenshire
Does seem a rather odd state of affairs.

I do wonder who on earth must have been supervising this learner whilst he accrued all those points :shock:

_________________
Image
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Sixy_the_red
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 16:46 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 08:22
Posts: 2618
Surely if someone's driving on a provisional car licence and therefore are supervised at all times then they shouldn't amass ANY points?!

It sounds draconian but I'd be in favour of zero tolerance on provisionals.

_________________
Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PeterE
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 17:55 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 23:09
Posts: 6737
Location: Stockport, Cheshire
Sixy_the_red wrote:
Surely if someone's driving on a provisional car licence and therefore are supervised at all times then they shouldn't amass ANY points?!

S/he could have been riding a moped on their own. Someone I know received an NIP while riding a moped at the time he had a provisional car licence (although in this case he was allowed to take a speed awareness course, so didn't get any points).

Quote:
It sounds draconian but I'd be in favour of zero tolerance on provisionals.

Given that there are so many tales on here of arbitrary, marginal convictions, especially from Talivans, that seems rather harsh to me.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
anton
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 19:08 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 22:02
Posts: 3266
He may have obtained his 9 points for driving whilt not being supervised.

_________________
Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Ernest Marsh
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 01:39 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 00:15
Posts: 5232
Location: Windermere
anton wrote:
He may have obtained his 9 points for driving whilt not being supervised.

Or he might have been warning other motorists of a speed camera ahead! :roll:

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
g_attrill
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 14:25 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 16:34
Posts: 923
Location: UK
Also I'm not sure what people are suggesting should happen - revoke the provisional licence and make them apply for it again? Big hassle, a photo, a stamp, a few quid and a week or two later they are back on the road.

It should also be added that if a new driver gets caught speeding there are the following scenarios:

0 pts: They get 3pts, and have one more chance
3 pts: They get 3pts, revoked (if not previously revoked), new licence comes back with 6pts.
6 pts: They get 3pts, revoked (if not previously revoked), new licence comes back with 9pts.
9 pts: They get 3pts, revoked (if not previously revoked), and probably a totting ban.

Gareth
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
jamie_duff
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 14:41 
Offline
User

Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 15:14
Posts: 420
Location: Aberdeenshire
I would suggest that any endorsements accrued on a provisional license should be carried forward to the full licence for the remainder of the endoresment term.

If a learner accrues 6 points or more then I fail to see how a license can be issued at all until time served?

_________________
Image
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
willcove
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 16:02 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 18:41
Posts: 893
jamie_duff wrote:
I would suggest that any endorsements accrued on a provisional license should be carried forward to the full licence for the remainder of the endoresment term.

If a learner accrues 6 points or more then I fail to see how a license can be issued at all until time served?

AIUI, these rules for new drivers revoke their full license and return them to learner status until they have passed another test. Once they have passed that test, their license is restored and the counter to revokation reset. If during the two years (whether that's the next two years or the expiry of the original two years, I'm unsure) they accrue another six points, their license is again revoked. Of course, should they manage to ramp up enough points to make a dozen, they get banned the same as anyone else.

I cannot see the problem with the status quo. By passing a test, the new driver has demonstrated his/her competence (i.e. that they are capable of driving safely). A newly requalified driver with 9 points has only 3 points to go before disqualification - the same as anyone else on 9 points. Having proved they can drive safely, why should they be treated differently to anyone else?

_________________
Will
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
g_attrill
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 13:24 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 16:34
Posts: 923
Location: UK
jamie_duff wrote:
I would suggest that any endorsements accrued on a provisional license should be carried forward to the full licence for the remainder of the endoresment term.

If a learner accrues 6 points or more then I fail to see how a license can be issued at all until time served?


The points are indeed carried forward, the situation is that (as Will mentions), the revocation is only be carried out at the time of an endorsement and only *after* somebody has passed their first test. It would be silly to prevent people from taking a test because they have six points, because it is likely the person will simply drive illegally, when they were on the correct path to (somewhat) legal driving.

edit: I do agree that both the learner and supervisor are doing something wrong if the learner accrues points whilst on a provisional licence.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Homer
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 01:30 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 14:04
Posts: 2325
Location: The interweb
Sixy_the_red wrote:
Surely if someone's driving on a provisional car licence and therefore are supervised at all times then they shouldn't amass ANY points?!


They may have gained the points before having any licence. How often have you heard of some teenage scrote getting six points for driving without a licence?
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
anton
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 06:00 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 22:02
Posts: 3266
If you pass your test and get 6 points you are not banned. You just have to retake your test. once the test is retaken you can continue driving. There is no fixed ban period. If you get another 3 points do you have to take test number 3?

_________________
Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PeterE
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 08:46 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 23:09
Posts: 6737
Location: Stockport, Cheshire
anton wrote:
If you pass your test and get 6 points you are not banned. You just have to retake your test. once the test is retaken you can continue driving. There is no fixed ban period. If you get another 3 points do you have to take test number 3?

No, the points are wiped off so you start again with zero.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
g_attrill
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 18:39 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 16:34
Posts: 923
Location: UK
PeterE wrote:
anton wrote:
If you pass your test and get 6 points you are not banned. You just have to retake your test. once the test is retaken you can continue driving. There is no fixed ban period. If you get another 3 points do you have to take test number 3?

No, the points are wiped off so you start again with zero.


The points stay on the licence, so somebody who gets 6 points during their provisional period then 3 points after passing will have 9 points on their new licence when they pass their second test. The revocation only takes effect after passing the first test (car or bike) so if they got another 3 points then they might get a totting ban but not another revocation.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 1
  [ 14 posts ] 

Board index » News » Road Safety, Speed Camera and Policy News

All times are UTC [ DST ]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 316 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 1.135s | 12 Queries | GZIP : Off ]