Safe Speed Forums

Wrong, powers are designated by the Chief Constable and include powers from the Police Reforn Act 2002

Powers they maybe..but NO POWER OF ARREST

Read This :- http://pcsos-national.co.uk/mirror.html

Daily mirror 11th may 2005..

CSOs were introduced in 2002 by then Home Secretary David Blunkett. He said: "They will act as the eyes and ears of officer colleagues and be a highly reassuring presence."
Labour pledged to increase the number of CSOs from 5,000 to 24,000 in their manifesto.
But a study by researchers from Leeds University released in October found the scheme has wasted time and money.

Their report said: "We encountered concerns that CSOs were uncertain what to do beyond walking their beat as a 'reassurance beacon' or 'mobile scarecrow'. I like that one ! A central challenge is to ensure CSOs patrol with a purpose."

Leeds University are they wrong as well..PCSO waste !!!!

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot have a read thru this from their own website

http://www.pcsos-national.co.uk/communi ... ficer.html

Their own website documents their own failings/weakness..Love it !!!!

Love to see em give evidence !!!

Jokers or what !!!!!!!!!

But your bold applys to an 'investigating officer' 2(b) designated by Director General, not a 'PCSO' 2(a).
This paragraph is to give 'specialists' e.g. Accountants, computer experts, Chemists (drugs and explosives), International Banking experts (money laundering), the power of a Constable, so they can act on warrants etc. to collect and give evidence in court.
It is not for Cheif Constables to turn PCSO's into Constables.

A Cheif Constable is not a Director General.

fatboytim

THAT SEEMS TO BE THE DIRECTION THE UK IS HEADING (SADLY):o

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

where does it state Accountants, computer experts, Chemists (drugs and explosives), International Banking experts (money laundering),

reading an investigating officer

a PCSO, traffic warden, SOCO joe bloggs can be trained authorised to do whatever is required,

nobody is saying that the CC can turn a PCSO into a constable with a wave of their hand, but the PRA 2002 shows that certain roles in this instance speed enforcement can be delegated to certain individuals,

chief of police ?? reading further i think this may not be even taken at the CC level more like ACC or Chief superintendant level

These are the powers of an investigating officer, where in this or the PSCO powers is speed enforcement.

PART 2
INVESTIGATING OFFICERS
Search warrants

16 Where a designation applies this paragraph to any person-

(a) he may apply as if he were a constable for a warrant under section 8 of the 1984 Act (warrants for entry and search) in respect of any premises in the relevant police area;

(b) the persons to whom a warrant to enter and search any such premises may be issued under that section shall include that person;

(c) that person shall have the power of a constable under section 8(2) of that Act in any premises in the relevant police area to seize and retain things for which a search has been authorised under subsection (1) of that section;

(d) section 15 of that Act (safeguards) shall have effect in relation to the issue of such a warrant to that person as it has effect in relation to the issue of a warrant under section 8 of that Act to a constable;

(e) section 16 of that Act (execution of warrants) shall have effect in relation to any warrant to enter and search premises that is issued (whether to that person or to any other person) in respect of premises in the relevant police area as if references in that section to a constable included references to that person;

(f) section 19(6) of that Act (protection for legally privileged material from seizure) shall have effect in relation to the seizure of anything by that person by virtue of sub-paragraph (c) as it has effect in relation to the seizure of anything by a constable;

(g) section 20 of that Act (extension of powers of seizure to computerised information) shall have effect in relation the power of seizure conferred on that person by virtue of sub-paragraph (c) as it applies in relation to the power of seizure conferred on a constable by section 8(2) of that Act;

(h) section 21(1) and (2) of that Act (provision of record of seizure) shall have effect in relation to the seizure of anything by that person in exercise of the power conferred on him by virtue of sub-paragraph (c) as if the references to a constable and to an officer included references to that person; and

(i) sections 21(3) to (8) and 22 of that Act (access, copying and retention) shall have effect in relation to anything seized by that person in exercise of that power, or taken away by him following the imposition of a requirement by virtue of sub-paragraph (g)-

(i) as they have effect in relation to anything seized in exercise of the power conferred on a constable by section 8(2) of that Act or taken away by a constable following the imposition of a requirement by virtue of section 20 of that Act; and

(ii) as if the references to a constable in subsections (3), (4) and (5) of section 21 included references to a person to whom this paragraph applies.

Access to excluded and special procedure material

17 Where a designation applies this paragraph to any person-

(a) he shall have the powers of a constable under section 9(1) of the 1984 Act (special provisions for access) to obtain access, in accordance with Schedule 1 to that Act and the following provisions of this paragraph, to excluded material and special procedure material;

(b) that Schedule shall have effect for the purpose of conferring those powers on that person as if -

(i) the references in paragraphs 1, 4, 5, 12 and 13 of that Schedule to a constable were references to that person; and

(ii) the references in paragraphs 12 and 14 of that Schedule to premises were references to premises in the relevant police area;

(c) section 19(6) of that Act (protection for legally privileged material from seizure) shall have effect in relation to the seizure of anything by that person in exercise of the power conferred on him by paragraph 13 of Schedule 1 to that Act as it has effect in relation to the seizure of anything under that paragraph by a constable;

(d) section 20 of that Act (extension of powers of seizure to computerised information) shall have effect in relation the power of seizure conferred on that person by paragraph 13 of Schedule 1 to that Act as it applies in relation to the power of seizure conferred on a constable by that paragraph;

(e) section 21(1) and (2) of that Act (provision of record of seizure) shall have effect in relation to the seizure of anything by that person in exercise of the power conferred on him by paragraph 13 of Schedule 1 to that Act as if the references to a constable and to an officer included references to that person; and

(f) sections 21(3) to (8) and 22 of that Act (access, copying and retention) shall have effect in relation to anything seized by that person in exercise of that power or taken away by him following the imposition of a requirement by virtue of sub-paragraph (d), and to anything produced to him under paragraph 4(a) of Schedule 1 to that Act-

(i) as they have effect in relation to anything seized in exercise of the power conferred on a constable by paragraph 13 of that Schedule or taken away by a constable following the imposition of a requirement by virtue of section 20 of that Act or, as the case may be, to anything produced to a constable under paragraph 4(a) of that Schedule; and

(ii) as if the references to a constable in subsections (3), (4) and (5) of section 21 included references to a person to whom this paragraph applies.

Entry and search after arrest

18 Where a designation applies this paragraph to any person-

(a) he shall have the powers of a constable under section 18 of the 1984 Act (entry and search after arrest) to enter and search any premises in the relevant police area and to seize and retain anything for which he may search under that section;

(b) subsections (5) and (6) of that section (power to carry out search before arrested person taken to police station and duty to inform senior officer) shall have effect in relation to any exercise by that person of those powers as if the references in those subsections to a constable were references to that person;

(c) section 19(6) of that Act (protection for legally privileged material from seizure) shall have effect in relation to the seizure of anything by that person by virtue of sub-paragraph (a) as it has effect in relation to the seizure of anything by a constable;

(d) section 20 of that Act (extension of powers of seizure to computerised information) shall have effect in relation the power of seizure conferred on that person by virtue of sub-paragraph (a) as it applies in relation to the power of seizure conferred on a constable by section 18(2) of that Act;

(e) section 21(1) and (2) of that Act (provision of record of seizure) shall have effect in relation to the seizure of anything by that person in exercise of the power conferred on him by virtue of sub-paragraph (a) as if the references to a constable and to an officer included references to that person; and

(f) sections 21(3) to (8) and 22 of that Act (access, copying and retention) shall have effect in relation to anything seized by that person in exercise of that power or taken away by him following the imposition of a requirement by virtue of sub-paragraph (d)-

(i) as they have effect in relation to anything seized in exercise of the power conferred on a constable by section 18(2) of that Act or taken away by a constable following the imposition of a requirement by virtue of section 20 of that Act; and

(ii) as if the references to a constable in subsections (3), (4) and (5) of section 21 included references to a person to whom this paragraph applies.

General power of seizure

19 Where a designation applies this paragraph to any person-


(a) he shall, when lawfully on any premises in the relevant police area, have the same powers as a constable under section 19 of the 1984 Act (general powers of seizure) to seize things;

(b) he shall also have the powers of a constable to impose a requirement by virtue of subsection (4) of that section in relation to information accessible from such premises;

(c) subsection (6) of that section (protection for legally privileged material from seizure) shall have effect in relation to the seizure of anything by that person by virtue of sub-paragraph (a) as it has effect in relation to the seizure of anything by a constable;

(d) section 21(1) and (2) of that Act (provision of record of seizure) shall have effect in relation to the seizure of anything by that person in exercise of the power conferred on him by virtue of sub-paragraph (a) as if the references to a constable and to an officer included references to that person; and

(e) sections 21(3) to (8) and 22 of that Act (access, copying and retention) shall have effect in relation to anything seized by that person in exercise of that power or taken away by him following the imposition of a requirement by virtue of sub-paragraph (b)-

(i) as they have effect in relation to anything seized in exercise of the power conferred on a constable by section 19(2) or (3) of that Act or taken away by a constable following the imposition of a requirement by virtue of section 19(4) of that Act; and

(ii) as if the references to a constable in subsections (3), (4) and (5) of section 21 included references to a person to whom this paragraph applies.

Access and copying in the case of things seized by constables

20 Where a designation applies this paragraph to any person, section 21 of the 1984 Act (access and copying) shall have effect in relation to anything seized in the relevant police area by a constable as if the references to a constable in subsections (3), (4) and (5) of section 21 (supervision of access and photographing of seized items) included references to a person to whom this paragraph applies.

Arrest at a police station for another offence

21 (1) Where a designation applies this paragraph to any person, he shall have the power to make an arrest at any police station in the relevant police area in any case where an arrest-

(a) is required to be made under section 31 of the 1984 Act (arrest for a further offence of a person already at a police station); or

(b) would be so required if the reference in that section to a constable included a reference to a person to whom this paragraph applies.

(2) Section 36 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 (c. 33) (consequences of failure by arrested person to account for objects etc.) shall apply (without prejudice to the effect of any designation applying paragraph 23) in the case of a person arrested in exercise of the power exercisable by virtue of this paragraph as it applies in the case of a person arrested by a constable.

Power to transfer persons into custody of investigating officers

22 (1) Where a designation applies this paragraph to any person, the custody officer for a designated police station in the relevant police area may transfer or permit the transfer to him of a person in police detention for an offence which is being investigated by the person to whom this paragraph applies.

(2) A person into whose custody another person is transferred under sub-paragraph (1)-

(a) shall be treated for all purposes as having that person in his lawful custody;

(b) shall be under a duty to prevent his escape; and

(c) shall be entitled to use reasonable force to keep that person in his custody.

(3) Where a person is transferred into the custody of a person to whom this paragraph applies, in accordance with sub-paragraph (1), subsections (2) and (3) of section 39 of the 1984 Act shall have effect as if-

(a) references to the transfer of a person in police detention into the custody of a police officer investigating an offence for which that person is in police detention were references to that person's transfer into the custody of the person to whom this paragraph applies; and

(b) references to the officer to whom the transfer is made and to the officer investigating the offence were references to the person to whom this paragraph applies.

Power to require arrested person to account for certain matters

23 Where a designation applies this paragraph to any person-

(a) he shall have the powers of a constable under sections 36(1)(c) and 37(1)(c) of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 (c. 33) to request a person who-

(i) has been arrested by a constable, or by any person to whom paragraph 21 applies, and

(ii) is detained at any place in the relevant police area,

to account for the presence of an object, substance or mark or for the presence of the arrested person at a particular place; and

(b) the references to a constable in sections 36(1)(b) and (c) and (4) and 37(1)(b) and (c) and (3) of that Act shall have effect accordingly as including references to the person to whom this paragraph is applied.

Extended powers of seizure

24 Where a designation applies this paragraph to any person-

(a) the powers of a constable under Part 2 of the Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001 (c. 16) (extension of powers of seizure) that are exercisable in the case of a constable by reference to a power of a constable that is conferred on that person by virtue of the provisions of this Part of this Schedule shall be exercisable by that person by reference to that power to the same extent as in the case of a constable but in relation only to premises in the relevant police area and things found on any such premises; and

(b) section 56 of that Act (retention of property seized by a constable) shall have effect as if the property referred to in subsection (1) of that section included property seized by that person at any time when he was lawfully on any premises in the relevant police area.

These are the powers The Director General can give to his staff.

CHAPTER 2
SOCA: SPECIAL POWERS OF DESIGNATED STAFF

Designations
43 Designation of SOCA staff as persons having powers of constable etc.

(1) The Director General of SOCA may designate a member of the staff of SOCA as one or more of the following-

(a) a person having the powers of a constable; We understand this one

(b) a person having the customs powers of an officer of Revenue and Customs; accounts, banking, computer experts for money laundering and Tax Evasion, chemists for drugs and contrabrand, they have always used these people, this legislation was to make it easier to introduce this specialist evidence to court as direct testimony, or should PCSO's do this

(c) a person having the powers of an immigration officer.

(2) A designation under this section-

(a) may be made subject to any limitations specified in the designation (whether as to the powers exercisable by virtue of it, the purposes for which they are exercisable or otherwise); and

(b) has effect either for a period so specified or without limit of time.
b][/b]

and here is a letter from the Director General of SOCA and it says Constables working for Soca.
www.soca.gov.uk/downloads/Powers_letter ... ersion.doc

"Uniform

Some SOCA Officers on operational duties will be provided with distinctive clothing that will have the words ‘POLICE’ and ‘SOCA’ clearly displayed on it.

But this will not be the same as police uniform. They won’t be able to exercise those powers available to a constable in uniform (principally in relation to road traffic)."

Sorry about the length of the post but I think it covers most of the myths believed by PCSO's, as they do not seem to follow and read the links I posted.

fatboytim

They have trouble reading the truth...

They appear have read some legislation and think that will do us..great stuff, we will adopt that to give us some power ..cos no one has give me any power (Wonder why they give them powers of summons only ! )

I need power to fuel my own self esteem..that piece of legislation seems to cover all I do ..hmm yes that seems fine..Mine !!!
Some CS gas and baton vests would help !

POWER.... I now have...watch out motorists terrorists and everyone. !

Here we are to take over from the real police..Rubbish !!!!

we"ll sort you criminals and motorists out ..woe betide you if you cross us ..

On a more serious note I have now drafted a letter for what it is worth complaining about the actions of the two PCSOS, and PC that issued my wifes ticket... and complaining how the PCSOs are used in this force area..

I asked were PCSOs were given the right to operate laser eqiuipment ?

Why they parked us on a dangerous bend on double yellows to issue a FPN ?

Where does the legislation come from for PCSOs to form "prior opinion".

I have asked why PCSOs have PCs writing tickets out based on what the PCSO allegedly saw ???

I will report back when a reply is received...

Serious now :-

Please note if your are ticketed by the PCSO Bluecaps, take them on in court. We were issued with some whilst parked outside a hospital - there where no yellow lines. We requested a court hearing and all mattters were well, DROPPED, they are a waste of time and here is another story from their very own website.


PCSO’s court appearance is an evident disaster

The alarming consequences of the poor training given to PCSOs is graphically illustrated in this account from a Federation constable member in east London of what happened when one of them had to give evidence in court.

The police officer, who is a member of a Safer Neighbourhoods team writes:
I arrested a youth for Section 5 POA outside a school. It was a straightforward case involving a very nasty up-and-coming young man. I had a PCSO with me and a teacher came forward as a witness for police.

In court, the teacher gave evidence, followed by myself and there were no problems. But then the PCSO entered the witness box.
What followed can only be described as an embarrassment to the Metropolitan Police and will lead to an appeal against conviction.

The PCSO, when questioned, froze, gave completely the wrong answers, contradicted himself almost every time and was totally overcome by the whole occasion. He fell apart in the box.
In the words of the defence solicitor, we had two different ‘police officers’ giving two different stories.

The PCSO assisted the defence by disagreeing with his own statement and agreeing with the defence that his own statement was not correct. The statement itself, although a little brief, was correct and had been written by him two hours after the incident with no input (deliberately) from any other officer.
I have since questioned him, along with two other PCSOs and discovered that the only training given for court appearances came in the form of a 20-minute video. They have not been prepared for giving evidence in any sense of the word. As a result, police officers cannot have faith in PCSOs as witnesses.

The argument that they can give evidence as ordinary members of the public does not stand up to scrutiny. As the defence solicitor in this case intended, the magistrates and everyone else in the court saw two ‘police officers’ in the box giving evidence. They expected a professional case to be presented. That this was not done is unacceptable and represents a failure by the organisation.

The whole PCSO team needs immediate training in court procedure, evidence writing and the presentation of evidence in court. Without this training, they cannot be relied upon as professional witnesses.
I believe PCSOs should give evidence in plain clothes until this issue is dealt with. That way the court will accept that they are not trained police officers and treat them accordingly. As things stand, I feel there are serious implications for police officers as more cases are lost.

The PCSO in the case I have just described told me that he was very upset by the experience and feels let down by the Metropolitan Police Service.

What a joke...and at your expense...your paying the wages for these people...make a laughing stock of the police service

Correct, I would have thought that it was evident that the PRA 2002 sec 38 makes it clear that the powers available to Chief Constables are from list contained there.



Sorry what does AFAIK mean?

It would appear that there has been an amount of confusion between the Serious Crime and Police Act and The Serious Crime & Police Agency. AKA SOCPA. Without sounding pedantic people do det confused between SOCAP and SOCPA. The Act provides powers for officers of SOCPA and also PCSO's.


Hope that is better for you.

Okay then in a nutshell..

why did those PCSOs opearte the laser..

On whos authority,

Who gave them the right to form "Prior opinion"

Why cant they write out an endorsable FPN ???

What right does a PC have to issue endorsable FPN for PCSOs, when he did not see the speed on the laser device...he never had first sight of the car he/she was acting on second hand unproffesional opinion/evidence ????

What the hell are they playing at..???

Making up rules to suit the purposes / ego of PCSOs ??? it would appear

Here is the full range of powers available to Chief Constables to desugnate at this moment in time, including Acts and Sections

Power to issue FPNs for dog fouling Power of an authorised officer of a local authority to give a notice under section 4 of the Dogs (Fouling of Land) Act 1996. Paragraph 1(2)(c) of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002.
Power to issue FPN for littering Power of an authorised officer of a litter authority to give a notice under section 88 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990. Paragraph 1(2)(d) of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002
Power to issue FPN graffiti/fly-posting Power of an authorised officer of a local authority to give a notice under section 43(1) of the Anti-social Behaviour Act 2003. Paragraph 1(2)(ca) of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (inserted by section 46 of the Anti-Social Behaviour Act 2003)
Power to remove abandoned vehicles under regulations made under section 99 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 Paragraph 10 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002

TRANSPORT POWERS

Power to issue FPN for cycling on pavement Power of a constable in uniform to give a person a fixed penalty notice under section 54 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 in respect of an offence under section 72 of the Highway Act 1835 (riding on a footway) committed by cycling.Paragraph 1(2)(b) of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002
Power to stop cycles: Powers of a constable in uniform to stop a cycle under section 163(2) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 when a CSO has reason to believe that a person has committed the offence of riding on a footpath. Paragraph 11A of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (inserted by section 89(3) of the Anti-Social Behaviour Act 2003)

Power to stop vehicles for testing, power to escort abnormal loads and power to carry out road checks Paragraph 11 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002. Paragraph 12 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 Paragraph 13 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002

Power to require name and address for road traffic offences: The Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 allows CSOs to be designated with the power to require the name and address of a driver or pedestrian who fails to follow the directions of a community support officer or police officer. Paragraph 3A of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (inserted by paragraph 6 of Schedule 8 to the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005).

Power to direct traffic and to place traffic signs
Paragraph 11B of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (inserted by paragraph 10 of Schedule 8 to the Serious Organised Crime and Police Bill & Paragraph 13A of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (inserted by paragraph 11 of the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005.)

Power to issue PND for throwing fireworks and trespassing on a railway and throwing stones on a railway.
Sec 80 of the Explosives Act 1875, s55 & s56 of British Transport Commission Act 1949

Power to seize vehicles used to cause alarm: Power to stop and seize a vehicle which a CSO has reason to believe is being used in a manner which contravenes sections 3 or 34 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 under section 59 of the Police Reform Act 2002. Paragraph 9 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002

ALCOHOL & TOBACCO POWERS

Limited power to enter licensed premises: The Serious Organised Crime and Police Bill allows CSOs to be designated with a power to enter licensed premises under section 180 of the Licensing Act 2003 for the purposes of investigating relevant licensing offences. Paragraph 8A of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (inserted by paragraph 9 of Schedule 8 to the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005).

Power to require persons drinking in designated area to surrender alcohol Power to require a person whom a CSO reasonably believes is, or has been, consuming alcohol in a designated public place or intends to do so, to not consume that alcohol and to surrender any alcohol or container for alcohol. Power to dispose of alcohol surrendered. Paragraph 5 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002

Power to require persons aged under 18 to surrender alcohol: Power to require a person who he reasonably believes is aged under 18 or is or has been supplying alcohol to a person aged under 18 to surrender any alcohol in his possession and to give their name and address. Power to require such a person to surrender sealed containers of alcohol if the CSO has reason to believe that the person is or has been consuming or intends to consume alcohol. Power to dispose of alcohol surrendered. Paragraph 6 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002

Power to search for alcohol and tobacco: Where a person has failed to comply with a requirement under paragraph 5 or 6 or has failed to allow a CSO to seize tobacco under paragraph 7 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 and a CSO reasonably believes that the person is in possession of alcohol or tobacco then a CSO may search them for it and dispose of anything found. Paragraph 7A of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (inserted by paragraph 8 of Schedule 8 of the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005).

Power to seize tobacco from a person aged under 16 and to dispose of that tobacco. Paragraph 7 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002
Power to seize drugs and require name and address for possession of drugs: The Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 allows CSOs to be designated with a power seize unconcealed drugs or drugs found when searching for alcohol, tobacco or dangerous items. The CSO must retain the drugs until a constable instructs them what to do with it.
Paragraphs 7B and 7C of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (inserted by paragraph 8 of Schedule 8 to the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005).

Power to issue PNDs for: sale of alcohol to a person under 18; purchase of alcohol for person under 18; delivery of alcohol to person under 18; drinking in designated area; consumption of alcohol by person under 18 or allowing such consumption; buying or attempting to buy alcohol by a person under 18 and sells or attempts to sell alcohol to a person who is drunk. s146, s149(3),s151, s150(1) Licensing Act 2003, s149(1), s141 Licensing Act 2003

POWERS TO TACKLE ANTI-SOCIAL BEHAVIOUR

Power to require name and address for anti-social behaviour: Power of a constable in uniform under section 50 of the Police Reform Act 2002 to require a person whom he has reason to believe to have been acting, or to be acting, in an anti-social manner to give his name and address.
Paragraph 3 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (Paragraph 3(10) of Schedule 8 to the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005).
Power to deal with begging: The Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 makes offences under sections 3 and 4 of the Vagrancy Act 1824 into relevant offences. It also gives CSOs a power to detain a person who they have required to stop committing an offence under sections 3 and 4 of the Vagrancy Act and who has failed to comply with the requirement. Paragraphs 2(6)(ac) and 2(3B) of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (see paragraphs 3(4), 3(5), 3(6) and 3(7) of Schedule 8 to the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005).

Power to issue PND for breach of fireworks curfew; possession of a category 4 firework; possession by a persons under 18 of an adult firework; supply of excessively load firework Fireworks Regulations 2004 under s11 of the Fireworks Act 2003

ENFORCEMENT POWERS

Power to require name and address for relevant offences Power to require the name and address of a person whom a CSO has reason to believe has committed a relevant offence (Relevant offences are defined under subparagraph 2(6) of Schedule 4 of the Police Reform Act). Paragraph 1A of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (inserted by paragraph 2 of Schedule 8 to the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005).

Power to detain: Power to detain a person whom a CSO has reason to believe has committed a relevant offence who fails to comply with a requirement to give name and address or who gives an answer which the CSO reasonably suspects to be false or inaccurate for up to 30 minutes or until the arrival of a police officer (or to accompany that person to a police station if he or she elects to do so on request). Paragraph 2 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002. (Paragraph 3(2) of Schedule 8 to the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005.)

Power to photograph persons away from a police station: The Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 enables CSOs to be designated with the power to photograph a person who has been arrested, detained or given a fixed penalty notice away from the police station.Paragraph 15ZA of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (inserted by paragraph 12 of Schedule 8 to the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005).

SECURITY POWERS

Power to enter and search any premises for purposes of saving life and limb or preventing damage to property Paragraph 8 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002

Power to stop and search in authorised areas: Powers under the Terrorism Act 2000 in authorised areas to stop and search vehicles and pedestrians when in the company and under the supervision of a constable. Paragraph 15 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002
Power to enforce cordoned areas: under section 36 of the Terrorism Act 2000 Paragraph 14 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002
POWERS NOT INCLUDED IN THE SET OF STANDARD POWERS

ENFORCEMENT POWERS
Power to enforce byelaws: The Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 provides that offences committed under relevant byelaws are relevant offences under paragraph 2(6) of Schedule 4 of the Police Reform Act 2002. A relevant byelaw is a byelaw from a list of byelaws that has been agreed between a chief constable and a relevant byelaw-making body. Paragraphs 1A(3), 2(3A), 2(6)(ad), 2(6B), 2(6C), 2(6D), 2(6E), 2(6F) of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (see paragraphs 2, 3(4), 3(7) and 3(8) of Schedule 8 to the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005).

Power to search detained persons for dangerous items or items that could be used to assist escape: Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 allows CSOs to be designated with the same powers as a constable under section 32 of PACE to search detained persons for anything that could be used to cause physical injury or to assist escape. Paragraph 2A of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (inserted by paragraph 4 of Schedule 8 to the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005).

Power to use reasonable force to prevent a detained person making off: either when waiting for the arrival of a constable or when accompanying a detained person to a police station. Paragraph 4 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002

Power to use reasonable force to transfer control of detained persons: Paragraph 2(4A) of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 places a duty on CSOs to remain with a police officer when transferring a detained person to his or her custody until the police officer has the person under control. Paragraph 2(4B) places a CSO accompanying a detained person to a police station under a duty to remain at the police station until the detained person is under control. Paragraphs 2(4A), 2(4B), 4ZA and 4ZB of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (see paragraphs 2, 3 and 4 of Schedule 9 to the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005).

Power to remove children in contravention of curfew notices to their place of residence: Power to remove a child to their place of residence if the CSO has reason to believe that the child is in contravention of a curfew notice under sub-sections 15(1), (2) and (3) of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998. Paragraph 4B of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (inserted by section 33 of the Anti-Social Behaviour Act 2003)

Power to issue FPN for truancy Power of a constable to give a penalty notice under section 444A of the Education Act 1996. Paragraph 1(2)(aa) of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (inserted by section 23 of the Anti-Social Behaviour Act 2003).

Power to remove truants to a designated place: where a local authority designates premises to which young person or child may be removed under this section, Powers of a constable in uniform to remove a child or young person that they have reasonable cause to believe is absent from school without lawful authority, back to the school or to designated premises.

Hope that this clarifies the powers that ARE available to Chief Constables at the moment. Of course this does not include the Common Law power of arrest that applies to "ANY PERSON," however this has been amended under SOCAP 2005 as follows:


Sections 110 & 111 and Schedule 7 of SOCAP came into force on 1 January 2006


NEW POWERS OF ARREST FOR 2006
SOCAP


Revises the framework of arrest powers in the Police & Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (PACE)
Amends sections of PACE to substitute "indictable offence" for references to "arrestable offence" and "serious arrestable offence"
Powers of arrest

S.25 (general arrest conditions) is repealed
The powers of arrest included in many offences such as Public Order Act and Road Traffic Act are repealed
There are very few preserved powers (listed in Sch. 2 PACE)
S.24 is amended
The term “arrestable” no longer applies
Police Power of Arrest

The arrest can be made
ONLY if the constable has reasonable grounds to
believe that the arrest is necessary for one of the specified reasons
New s.24A Other person power of arrest

Only for indictable offences
Must have reasonable grounds to believe the arrest is necessary for a specified reason AND
Not reasonably practicable for a constable to arrest
Any person – arrest reasons

Causing physical injury to himself/others
Suffering physical injury
Causing loss of or damage to property
Making off before a constable can assume responsibility

Question still not answered why do you copy verbatim legislation.....when you should know all this yourself...you havent answered my question..why..

operationally you do not know. !!! that is why !!!!

ONLY if the constable has reasonable grounds to

This applies to none of you PCSOs ..I will repeat again..you are not

CONSTABLES..DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT ??????

YOU ARE NOT CONSTABLES

All you know is too copy verbatim...you have no knowledge of the law and should be ashamed of yourself.. answer the question or are you stuck like your mate in the witness box ..you are a joke !!!!!!

prove otherwise...!!!!!!

Try again and answer in plain english..if you are able to please !

Honestly I don't know there are a number of variables in play. it depends on which force it was, also what theor force deployment policy is in relationship to this is.



If you bothered to read the powers above you will see that PCSO's do not have the power to issue endorsable FPN's for moving traffic offences.



I can't comment on that as I am not aware of the situation, other than your numerous statements. I did offer you advice on researching force policy and making a formal complaint I suggest that you do this.




The reason I posted the legislation above was to clarify for yourself and others the legal position on what options are available to Chief Constables to designate to PCSO's.

It has become clear that many reading these posts and others have been confused between various legislations and powers.

I have decided not to continue in this debate as you are clearly unable to provide postings that are little more than immature rants and have little positive benefit to anyone most of all yourself. I have answered your postings and others and have provided you with helpful ideas to alleviate your problem.
I hope that the information I have provided will help other members on this forum with their quest for the truth about PCSO's.

I will be happy to answer any further questions from anyone but you HonestAndy, until you can post in a responsible manner.

Big si said
"Correct, I would have thought that it was evident that the PRA 2002 sec 38 makes it clear that the powers available to Chief Constables are from list contained there."

Yes and the designations and the powers have been posted for a PCSO and an Investigation Officers

"It would appear that there has been an amount of confusion between the Serious Crime and Police Act and The Serious Crime & Police Agency. AKA SOCPA. Without sounding pedantic people do det confused between SOCAP and SOCPA. The Act provides powers for officers of SOCPA and also PCSO's."

Serious Crime & Police Agency here is no such agency, there is the Serious Organised Crime Agency which is SOCA.
which was set up by The Serious Organised Crime and Police Act SOCPA

It would appear you are the one who is confused.

AFAIK = As Far As I Know

You mention 'variables' Please quote them.

Again I ask if you work for SOCA under the Director General, or you are PCSO working under a Chief Constable?.

MrsMiggins and myself have been civil in all our postings, if you choose not to post again, we can only assume you started a fight you found you couldn't win and ran away like PCSO879.

fatboytim

Mrs M sorry but the quote thing is a pain to format.

It's simple once you understand an easy way to do it.

The code for the quote above is:



clicking the "quote" button on someone's post will automatically put the entire contents into the quote tags, from then you can simply delete the bits that aren't relevant. If you want to quote more than once then simply just copy and paste the quote tags as required. You need both the quote=”insert_name_here” and the /quote , both within the []s
For example:


will end up with:


Yeah, no ,maybe.....




Hope that helps. I’m off to read the MoS

I think we're all actually arguing and agreeing at the same time. To simplify, big-si can you agree with the following?

1. A constable and a PCSO have different powers
2. Certain powers that used to be used by constables can now be designated as PSCO powers (issuing FPNs for disorder being one such power)
3. PCSOs cannot issue FPNs for speeding
4. The road traffic act says that prior opinion evidence in a speeding prosecution should be that of a constable
5. PCSOs are not constables

Following on from the above
6. If the constable in Honestandy's original sorry tale didn't actually see the vehicle, form an opinion it was speeding then verify that using the laser device then the law was not being followed with respect to the evidence being gathered since the primary evidence is the opinion and the secondary evidence (corroboration) is the laser reading.

_________________
Less Kodak, more Kojak.
In times of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

The list I last posted is the current list available for PCSO designation.

"It would appear that there has been an amount of confusion between the Serious Crime and Police Act and The Serious Crime & Police Agency. AKA SOCPA. Without sounding pedantic people do det confused between SOCAP and SOCPA. The Act provides powers for officers of SOCPA and also PCSO's."



I have no confusion and am very clear of the difference between the two, in my professional circles the two to avoid confusion are referred to as SOCAP and SOCPA


Thankyou



As above the variables will be the force deployment policy, anbd what the offcers were tasked with. Each force has it's own deployment policy and officers have different powers.


Again I answer NO I am a PCSO



Indeed you have both been civil in your postings, if you read my post you will see that my comment is clearly directed at HonestAndy.

I am enjoying this discussion as it only serves to fuel my perception that the general public have little or no knowledge relating to PCSO's thanks to tyhe poor implementation by the Government.

Correct
Correct
Correct
Correct, which is why if I am operatin gthe device the PC forms the opinion and I operate the device under their instruction, whilst they stop the vehicle.
In the traditional sense of the word no we are not constables are we do not attest in acourt of law. However and this is the confusing bit. An example can be made of Sec 59 PRA 2002, which gives the power of Constable to a PCSO. Hence if a PCSO is acting under Sec 59 he is in the eyes of the law a constable.


I agree with you, at very least ACPO guidance was not followed and pending the force policy on the deployment of these officers I would say he had grounds to make a complaint and proividing it is upheld an appeal against the conviction.

To clear this up for us, what is your understanding the abrieviations ...
SOCPA=
SOCAP=
SOCA=


Thankyou



Whatever the deployment policy, the only powers that can be bestowed are those you posted, no more, no less, just and only those powers, which do not include speeding offences.

fatboytim

Slowly getting there with the quotes

Yes that power only covers this section, sec 59 "(3)
Those powers are-

Seizure of motor vehicles
59 Vehicles used in manner causing alarm, distress or annoyance

3 (a) power, if the motor vehicle is moving, to order the person driving it to stop the vehicle;

(b) power to seize and remove the motor vehicle;

(c) power, for the purposes of exercising a power falling within paragraph (a) or (b), to enter any premises on which he has reasonable grounds for believing the motor vehicle to be;

(d) power to use reasonable force, if necessary, in the exercise of any power conferred by any of paragraphs to (a) to (c).

as this is what Schedule 4 (9) says
"Seizure of vehicles used to cause alarm etc.

9 (1) Where a designation applies this paragraph to any person-

(a) that person shall, within the relevant police area, have all the powers of a constable in uniform under section 59 of this Act which are set out in subsection (3) of that section; and

(b) references in that section to a constable, in relation to the exercise of any of those powers by that person, are references to that person.

(2) A person to whom this paragraph applies shall not enter any premises in exercise of the power conferred by section 59(3)(c) except in the company, and under the supervision, of a constable.

All that allows you is to stop vehicles causing alarm or distress, sieze and remove it, nothing more.
You do not have all the powers of Section 59, as you inferred, only the powers of S 59(3) a)& b).

fatboytim