Safe Speed Forums

We've already debated this one to death since it became law in September..

Government claims that 2000 young lives will be saved if the child is secured in seat or booster. Perhaps - but surely the onus should be on improving the driver's observation/anticipation/spacial awareness skills/COAST skills as priority .

Even if parents are complyiung with the law - the seat can only enhance safeety if the child is secured into it correctly [/]

Dr Rajiv B in AutoExpress wrote:

I work in paediatics and have seen the damage a seatbelt can do to a child's stomach if not located in the right place. I ensure the harness is localted over the hip where it should be. The correct booster helps. But some of my colleagues don't make their young children use a booster seat

Per Auto Express - they surveyed drivers with kids over the half term break and found 42% of all children were not secured in the child seats or the boosters.

The replies from parents were

Quote:

amazing

with some parents disimissing the legislation as a "waste of time" ..and seats being "in the other car" and "I have to put the bicycles somewhere!"

All claimed they had tried to buy the seats - but that the

Quote:

shops had sold out

AutoExpress contacted the major retailers - Argos, Halfords, Mothercare, ToysRUs and Woolworth. They found that Argos was out of cushions and boosets nationwide.. but that the other retailers were only out of stock on their cheaper lines: they had the more expensive ones for sale.

Quiote naturally - parents will want to buy the budget models according to how much they can afford to pay.. and even the cheap seats are an item for some - especially if they have not budgeted and have just forked out hundreds for school uniforms in September as well. So - yes I can understand the dilemma for some of these parents from a cost point of view.

However

Sheila Rainger of the RAC in the piece wrote:

Forking out an extra £30 for one of the more expensive seats is a small price to pay How much is a child's life worth?

Well... if your child is an only child.. but most have to buy two seats and the extra cost - especially if the children are borderline height...I can well understand why they will want to wait until the shop gets more of the cheeaper booster back into stock.



The other problem for some.. AutoExrpess measured some of thise kids.. and they were 132 -134 cm.. just one centimetre short. Kids grow so fast and the parents when questioned said they probably would not bother
as they'd soon outgrow them.


The survey found that many parents believed motorwasy were the most dangerous places to drive and would strap thier kids in seats for these drives .. "but not bother in town"

Sheila Rainger of the RAC wrote:

Many believe motorways are the most dangerous places to drive.. but actually they are the safest There is much more danger of having an accident in a built up area or close to your home It is imperative that a child under 135 cm uses a booster seat at all times - even for short journeys

Yep.. we said that on here.. familiarity - people don't always concentrate and built up areas... volume of traffic and other hazards lead to prangs.


Worrying though

AutoExpress wrote:

One Luton man who did not want to be named had squeezed four children - eldest aged 9 - and four adults into his Rover 600. He defiantly siad "They have survived so far without booser seats and I am not bothering to get one"

Had he been in this area.. I think we would have had some words over overloading a vehicle

Oh - in the survey - some had been using these seats long before the rules came into force... like the Mad Doc and those Swiss.. who spent time getting their rogues back into seats beforehand.



But how do you enforce this? AutoExpress spotted police in Luton stiopping cars carrying children not wearing seat belts.

[quote=PC Michelle M of Luton"]

We are concentrating only on those not wearing belts [i] because it's so hard to spot if the kid's are using a booster. Even if the car is crawling in a jam.. you cannot tell. It is also hard to spot a borderline case height wise as well.

Indeed...not an easy one to enforce... and we have considered just the odd random stop .... and I think professional judgement, common sense, education, friendly advice will still figure highly as to how we "enforce" this one.

and I agree with Sheila Rainger

Sheila Rainger wrote:

Education not enforement is the key to getting parents to comply with this law

_________________
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Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

[/quote]

I think you mean killed and injured.

I think you mean killed and injured.[/quote]


Nope .. it says "2000 lives saved". Something is definitely wrong with government stats

Not a Waily article - but this week's Auto Express and a smilar story also featured in one of Future Publication's many car mags - aimed at motorheads last month.

They don't just publish C+ and Mountain Biking...

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Nope, If you look closely you will probabally find in the small print "Between now and the year 2500"

_________________
"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

Gulp! You mean - yet another cash cow?

I admit.. we do not see children killed to such extremes here. As hinted - and you have to appreciate - I hint rather than say outright at time - I leave the Mad Cats to let rip - because of profesional restriction BUT it glares rather obviously and you do not have to Sherlock Holmes, Poirot, Alleyn, Barnaby, Bergerac, Linsey, Frost, Regan or Carter to work it out - there's something not ringing true with tany of these stats They just don't tally or gel with each other. I think the public really need a better measure - a realistic one else we will never succeed in educating to COAST ideal or any other safe system of road use. If we do not get across a systematic apporach like COAST - adopted by DIS and Speed Awares and not profiled enough - and focus only an a single issue llike speed as prime cause which we accept does not cause but affects outcome and neglect the real causes of various COAST error - we wiill never improve beyond a national average of over 3000 KSI total per year .. and when you look at the projected figures of 2000 lives saved by being secured in a booster against 1200 young drivers killed by inexperienced youthful immaturity .. then you are faced with something not quite adding up.. and you then are right to question these figures which are not Paul Smiths .. but [b] OFFICIAL OFFICE FOR NATIONAL STATISTICS " and source figures from police, NHS, Insurance companies also contradict.

Result? Doubt

and it does not help make things any safer in reality.


The pro lobby as we speak are full of the normal invective and skimming through various posts.elsewhere - in denial and well rattled. So much so that they can only defend with petty insult which no one takes any note of! All I can say f:censored:g in the wind ..our host gets the interviews and the quotes
in the media and folk are now heeding and listening to COAST

Lycra louts? If they ceased to insult, offend and actually did soemthing other than post offence against the motoring sites - then they may get a hearing and some action. But then .. no posts about the joys of cycling.. just whinge
.
It achieves nowt! Threads as seen somewhere only prove that these people are well worried by the strength of common sense. Cameras only slow down at the sites.. they do not do anything other. Police presence make people comply and sit up to atttention. If we stop people and advise on the spot .. they learn.. we help make things safer. We alwasy work to that aim. Replace with a camera.. and they drive at any old speed between them.. it does not cut KSI long term.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

I think you mean killed and injured.[/quote]

So are you saying that no-one should belt up or be secured in a car seat? Or are you saying the gov stats are wrong? Funny that - you seem to believe the rest.. without question

I posted back in May when this first came to light that I had doubts about the truth of these stats. But my sons use the seats because of this law. They have always been insistent on using the seat belt anyway and they are the ones who will check everyone is belted up anyways.

Cost me a fortune and a lot of "words" with our two young sons aged 8 and 6 years to get them back into these seats without a rumpus.

As it is .. the eldest of the trio is legal if sandwiched between the two youngest in their seats ..leads to the odd fracas between our competitive two rogues. Are they any safer than they were without the seats? I'd say about the same..and we have always used a seatbelt cover in any case for comfort.

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[quote]IG
Government claims that 2000 young lives will be saved if the child is secured in seat or booster. Perhaps - but surely the onus should be on improving the driver's observation/anticipation/spacial awareness skills/COAST skills as priority .[quote]

Spot on as usual ---remembering that there is some stress on rear seated passengers - you cannot drive as on your own - That's your precious cargo you have behind you , be it kids or grandkids- drive as if their lives depend on your driving ------


IT DOES

Only last Sunday I saw a family get into a car with mum driving and dad (a good 15 stone I'd say) in the front passenger seat with no belt on AND a (five-ish) year old girl sat on his kneee in a car young enough to have a passenger airbag!

Some people have no common sense at all. Ist like the person in the article who overcrowd his car.

Ja... ist very difficult .. We had thread some time on PH. Poster saw similarly overcrowded car at supermarket und thought she should have reported them as danger. I think 3 adults (Mum, Dad und Gran) und four children .. in a small hatch who had gone to Asda. Ist difficult dilemma as offence ist easily taken - especially if you "interfere"


But there can be all kind of reason why they did not leave Gran with the kids at home whilst one went to shop for whatever they forgot for Sunday dinner. I think I would have risked making some small talk und then steered conversation to cars und seat belts.. und safe loading of car.
#
With this one.. would perhaps have tooted, smiled und gestured to belt. Perhaps they would have

1.ignored or
2. made rudest gesture..
3. or belted up properly.


I suspect option two

Hope they met Ian on way home und they had a little chat.

I think we need to educate much more und better than we are at the moment - especially when people still sit with child in laps in the car.

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