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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 13:16 
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Daily Mail

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Traffic warden tickets man as wife is dying
Last updated at 10:40am on 17th November 2006

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Warden: 'I've got a job to do'

A driver who pulled over to park the car when his wife had a fatal heart attack has been booked by traffic wardens.

The woman, in her seventies, had a cardiac arrest on her way to St John's Wood Medical Practice in north London.

Her husband, who was taking her to a doctor's appointment, was forced to stop on a yellow line outside the surgery as he called 999. He went with his dying wife in the ambulance as she was rushed to St Mary's Hospital in Paddington.

But the woman, who has not been named, was dead on arrival.

Her devastated husband returned to the surgery in tears to find he had been given a £50 parking ticket.

Wardens acted despite doctors displaying a notice in his windscreen explaining the emergency.

One local businessman said he pleaded with the warden. Gary Mulreay, who owns St John's Barbers a few doors away, said: "I was there to help get this poor woman out of the car and to administer CPR. When the wardens came along we told them what had happened.

"But one issued a ticket anyway. I was absolutely stunned. He actually said, 'It's not my problem, I've got a job to do'."

A spokesman for Westminster council, which employs the NCP firm of wardens, said the ticket had now been cancelled.


What is this country coming to? :(

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 13:28 
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When the councils trawl McDonalds and Little Chef headhunting their traffic wardens they are hardly looking for people of high-IQ or significant skillsets, those sort of people would cost too much and cut into ticket revenue.

These people, who have probably been downtrodden all their lives, and no doubt harbour at least some (at least subconcious) resentment towards those they see as 'more sucessful' than themselves (anyone with a car). You give these people a natty uniform and a little bit of power, and it turns them into reincarnations of Ghengis Khan. Little wonder really!

"Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely"


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 13:56 
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I suppose his crystal ball wasnt working that morning ,for him to know that the car parked presumably with no note in the window to tell him.

Before you all start shouting who the hell wants to put a note in the window when your loved one is dying, exactly. I am sure that a simple letter to the council will see it squashed under the circumstances.

The power of the media again and the public opening there mouth before putting there brain into gear, unless ive missed something, how the hell is the warden supposed to know, and no he shouldn't have to walk in and out of every nearby premises to find the driver. Stand back and wait for the fallout. :twisted: :evil: .
Stephen


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 13:56 
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The thing is: if the warden believed the note of the tragedy so not issuing a ticket, then every cheating bugger would soon use that tactic for free parking - then what do you do?

All the poor bloke had to do was appeal (proving his circumstances) so that the ticket would be duly cancelled; I don't see a problem here.
Must be a slow news day!


edit: Stephen beat me to it by mere seconds :)


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 14:00 
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Stephen wrote:
I suppose his crystal ball wasnt working that morning ,for him to know that the car parked presumably with no note in the window to tell him.

Before you all start shouting who the hell wants to put a note in the window when your loved one is dying, exactly. I am sure that a simple letter to the council will see it squashed under the circumstances.

The power of the media again and the public opening there mouth before putting there brain into gear, unless ive missed something, how the hell is the warden supposed to know, and no he shouldn't have to walk in and out of every nearby premises to find the driver. Stand back and wait for the fallout. :twisted: :evil: .
Stephen


Did you read the article?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 14:02 
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Stephen wrote:
I suppose his crystal ball wasnt working that morning ,for him to know that the car parked presumably with no note in the window to tell him.

Before you all start shouting who the hell wants to put a note in the window when your loved one is dying, exactly. I am sure that a simple letter to the council will see it squashed under the circumstances.

The power of the media again and the public opening there mouth before putting there brain into gear, unless ive missed something, how the hell is the warden supposed to know, and no he shouldn't have to walk in and out of every nearby premises to find the driver. Stand back and wait for the fallout. :twisted: :evil: .
Stephen


Quote:
Wardens acted despite doctors displaying a notice in his windscreen explaining the emergency.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 14:04 
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As Paul says, Stephen and smeggy, if you had read the full story (go on, its not even that long) you would have seen that the doctors placed a note on his windscreen, and a local business man pleaded with the warden. I doubt whether "every cheating bugger" can get this level of corroboration at the scene!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 14:07 
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RobinXe wrote:
As Paul says, Stephen and smeggy, if you had read the full story (go on, its not even that long) you would have seen that the doctors placed a note on his windscreen, and a local business man pleaded with the warden. I doubt whether "every cheating bugger" can get this level of corroboration at the scene!

I did read it and I did notice a note was placed on the windscreen. My point is: unless the note can be proven to be genuine, then wardens have to assume it isn't until proven otherwise.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 14:16 
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How else do you think it was proven that it wasn't at the scene? Did the newspaper approaching the council for comment satisfy the burden of proof and precipitate the cancellation of the ticket? Was it already cancelled after an explanatory letter from the 'accused'? Do you really think that the man sent his wife's death certificate to the council to get off his ticket?

I do appreciate your point that there needs to be some proof to the veracity of the note, but I would say that the local store-owner in person, pleading with the warden, would be more than enough. My suspicion is that the ticket was cancelled as soon as someone with an IQ higher than a stone looked at the case.

The issue here is not so much whether he actually had to stump up for the ticket, but more the additional angst that a jumped-up jobsworth caused a grief-stricken man when it could so easily have been avoided!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 14:19 
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smeggy wrote:
RobinXe wrote:
As Paul says, Stephen and smeggy, if you had read the full story (go on, its not even that long) you would have seen that the doctors placed a note on his windscreen, and a local business man pleaded with the warden. I doubt whether "every cheating bugger" can get this level of corroboration at the scene!

I did read it and I did notice a note was placed on the windscreen. My point is: unless the note can be proven to be genuine, then wardens have to assume it isn't until proven otherwise.


I can't agree with you there. We need officials who have reasonable powers of judgement do we not?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 14:58 
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I thought you wanted anyone who had committed any offences to recieve justice from jury and judge regardless?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 15:05 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
I can't agree with you there. We need officials who have reasonable powers of judgement do we not?

I agree and appreciate the parallel with the SS campaign. For whatever reason the warden didn’t apply reason and opted to act based upon the technical infringement, but the difference here is that driver was able to appeal to a wiser being, resulting with the warden’s judgement being reversed, no harm done! One would hope that all wardens will learn from that decision.

There was really no need for this hoo-haa at all; this would have been newsworthy if the council had instead stood firm.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 15:43 
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Alternatively, one could ask whether the ticket would have been cancelled at all if the media had not been involved...?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 15:57 
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I don't remember reading anything yet which says that councils are allowed to get another company to issue PCNs for them.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 16:02 
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mpaton2004 wrote:
I thought you wanted anyone who had committed any offences to recieve justice from jury and judge regardless?


Who me? Whatever makes you think that?

Especially in the light of the obvious fact that we're all technically offenders.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 16:09 
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Rewolf wrote:
Alternatively, one could ask whether the ticket would have been cancelled at all if the media had not been involved...?

It certainly would be fishy had the Westminster spokesman council had said
"the ticket would now been cancelled" instead of "the ticket had now been cancelled"


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 16:20 
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going off topic slightly, out shopping recently the wife was inside a shop i was waiting outside a driver pulls up i would say about 50% over the kerb, he scribbles something and puts it on the dash gets out of the car abd walks past me, i told him there were parking attendants around the corner his reply so what

being a nosy old git i had a look at the note, as i was walking away right on cue a attendant come up to me and said you will have to move your car, i told him its not mine, the ticket was issued

the driver returns sees the ticket and then has a massive temper tantrum with the attendant, saying he had left a note, he should get a life etc, the attendant told the driver that he had made a note about the drivers note but the driver had not left any money to follow up his note

the drivers note said in the shops if there is a problem phone {mobile number} quite ironic really


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 16:54 
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smeggy wrote:
Rewolf wrote:
Alternatively, one could ask whether the ticket would have been cancelled at all if the media had not been involved...?

It certainly would be fishy had the Westminster spokesman council had said
"the ticket would now been cancelled" instead of "the ticket had now been cancelled"


Not really. That's not how it works.

When you try and enquire (as a journalist) you speak to a harrassed press officer who says: "I'll find out and get back to you." There's ample opportunity to 'change the world' a little before the official reply is given.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 17:28 
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smeggy wrote:
unless the note can be proven to be genuine, then wardens have to assume it isn't until proven otherwise.


Warden sees car parked outside a doctors surgery.

Note on the windscreen written by the doctor explains the circumstances.

Warden, miraculously gifted with a sudden burst of common sense, pops into the surgery and confirms the note is genuine, before continuing on their way leaving the car unticketed...


smeggy wrote:
the difference here is that driver was able to appeal to a wiser being, resulting with the warden’s judgement being reversed, no harm done!


No long-term harm perhaps, but when someone is in a wobbly mental state, things that might otherwise be little more than an irritation can end up being really difficult to handle. It doesn't matter that the appeals process exists to quash such tickets, it matters that we have mindless council-bots roaming the streets ready and quite willing to dish out tickets in a purely technical jobsworthy manner, even in situations when the proof they'd need to avoid issuing the ticket is available there and then.

The whole "wardens can't show discretion, that's what the appeals process is for" idea simply means the burden of getting a ticket cancelled is shifted onto the motorist to pursue in their own unpaid time, leaving the wardens to continue issuing dodgy tickets on council time and money...

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 18:46 
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Some interesting arguments here.

The one that comes to my mind is that rightly or wrongly, someone has already decided that outside the surgery is not a suitable place to stop & has painted some yellow lines there. It's not the wardens job to decide if they were right to do that or not - otherwise we would have them using their "discretion" for all sorts of things (like their mates, the SCP vans etc).

As for the note - well I'm sure they come across hundreds of "genuine" notes every day.

Not quite sure which side I sit on with this one! I probably err on the side that he shouldn't have got a ticket .... otherwise we continue on the path to automation for everything..

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