Safe Speed Forums

Interesting. Why were you deliberately speeding?



Thanks in part from the continued efforts of campaign groups like SafeSpeed educating the public to the fallacious reasoning behind these moves.

Several MPs were calling for it.


Ahem, clearly you haven’t driven in Germany. I said unrestricted, over there it really does mean just that – unrestricted, no speed limit, you can legally drive as fast as you possibly can – yet the great majority don’t……

I'm thinking perfectly well thank you. You don't seem to be, as you are clouded by your own thoughts too much to read what I am saying, which is-

It doesn't matter which is the most important. Neither is mutually exclusive. Just because one may be more important than the other, doesn't make the other completely insignificant, as you are claiming.

Goodness me. You need to be able to grasp that before you can advance to adequately review and information. Ignoring the bits that you don't like won't help you campaign at all, and will only continue to do you damage.

And while we are on the subject of ignoring bits that you don't like, will you please respond to my reasonable and necessary question about the 'old pages'?

Or do I feel a suspension coming on?

Being on the wrong side of the road is dangerous, yes? The longer I'm on the wrong side of the road, the longer I'm in danger, yes? Therefore accellerating to a higher speed in order to complete an overtake in the shortest possible time is safer than dawdling past at the speed limit.

I'm begining to lose the will here.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

My apologies. I was taking unrestricted by its literal meaning, that the roads were free from congestion and repairs. I am aware that there are roads in Germany with no limits. And no, I haven't drvien there.

More crucially would be the answer to my question of why someone should not be allowed to continue at 80mph on these roads, should this be the most comfortable speed for them.

Where did anyone suggest that there was any problem with travelling at 80mph?

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Nope. The speech I referenced was fom this week, not from February. A great deal has happened since February. It marks a massive shift in emphasis in my opinion. Stand by for major revelations from the DfT before Christmas, if my guess is correct.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

So am I. You said that drifting over the speed limit was the issue.

Then you said the choosing to drive over the limit in order to overtake was. I pointed out that these were different, as one involves the subconscious and the other doesn't.

You said that they weren't different, then you said that you were talking about non-deliberately breaking the speed limit. I reminded you that deliberately going over the limit in order to overtake was deliberately breaking the speed limit.

Can you see where the confusion arises?

I've driven thousands of miles with a turbo diesel, and have never found your issue to be a problem.

Because I chose to. I had no reason to. I had never really thought about why I should not. Then one day I realised that I didn't have to follow the herd. And, to use one of Paul's phrases, it changed my life.




That opinion isn't measurable. I have no doubt that we would have had the same result if SS didn't exist.

I didn't say 'complete insignificance', I said 'practical insignificance'.

If you think I'm wrong, then paint your windscreen black and go for a drive, trusting the speedo to keep you safe.

I'm not ignoring anything, let alone the bits I don't like, thanks.

Why do you think road risks in India are 40 times (is that still current?) greater than here? Is that because they drive really fast?

Why are the road risks on Belgian Motorways four times greater than here?

Where are the road risks on German Autobahns half those on the Belgian Motorways?



Check your PMs - and check the time of posting.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

The speech that also said this-

Secondly, cars, and the roads we drive on are getting safer, thanks to innovations like ABS, airbags, and, yes, the speed camera.

Would you seriously expect a minister for transport to not mention speed cameras?

Politicians don't usually admit to being wrong.

This is 8 pages of titter tatter.


Where's that yawning smiley?

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Jub Jub, the whole point that Paul is making is that with speed vs accident severity, it's about the ability to stop safely within the distance you can see ahead and around you. Or put another way, the ability to select a speed to allow you to anticipate a potential hazard.

No one on this forum disagrees that if you hit something at 40 it'll cause more damage than at 30. However, using this a reason to force slower speeds is useless because it doesn't take into account any conditions such as visibilty, parked cars, road surface etc.

Speed camera policy has effectively sent the message to drivers that if you don't exceed a speed limit you are safe and if you do exceed the speed limit you are automatically dangerous. That is simply wrong. Put another way, one of the roads very near to me has recently had its speed limit cut from 40 to 30 with no change in development or road layout. Am I now suddenly dangerous for doing say 35-40 when it was previously considered fine?

Speed limits at best are nothing more than a guide for a safe maximum speed. But speed camera policy has turned road safety, which included a sensible policy of well set speed limits (i.e. set around 85th percentile speeds) enforced with discretion, into a game of numbers.

Lastly just thought I'd say that a few years ago I was driving 200 miles up north to Staffordshire in an old Mini. Just after my journey began, the speedometer broke but I carried on anyway. And I can say that it really was just so much more stress free. I drove calmly and there was little traffic around as well to "assist" me with setting my speed. I had no problem in setting a safe speed for the conditions. The only time I had a problem was when I had to go past a few gatsos in a 40 limit - in which case I had to just slow down to well under the limit, because I didn't know for sure that I wasn't exceeding 40

I got the PM thanks. And I predict that this will be my fairwell post.

After denials on another forum yesterday, you have just admitted to me in a PM that you allowed those pages onto your site, knowing that they advocated such actions as obscuring number plates and using the names of dead people to procure additional driving licenses.

For some reason you don't want to acknowledge this in public. Probably because it is proof that the original motive behind SafeSpeed was to enable people to speed and get away with it. Of course you have now realised that those kind of comments wouldn't get you anywhere, and so deleted them, and changed your strategy.

Your underlying motives undeniably remain.

I don't think this post will stay on the page for long.

It has been known for people to change Jub Jub. Motives can change too.

The accusations you made serve no purpose, and I cannot understand why you would feel the need to post them up on this forum. What has it achieved for you?

There is more to this forum than Paul Smith. I don't agree with all his ideas and occassionally, yes, I think he can evade a point.

On the whole though I do believe that Paul Smith, Safespeed and the overwhelming majority of posters on this forum simply see the current road safety policy for what it really is and wish for something better.

It looks as though you consider yourself some kind of martyr for whatever cause you stand for posting those allegations and washing your dirty laundry in public.

It's not going to change my views or opinions on road safety, and it wont stop me using this forum, reading the opinions and views of others, considering them and offering my own thoughts.

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I was addressing your point of:

My response being that the Germans simply don’t do that. OK you get the odd Porsche driver who likes to really fly, but from my experience these guys are few and far between, IMO the majority don’t exceed 80. It would be interesting to see what the 85th percentile is for these truly unrestricted roads; I suspect it’s lower than what many people would estimate. Their Autobahns are mostly on par with the quality of our motorways, although some are much worse.

You're talking crap and probably knowingly so. Here's the PM you wish to misrepresent:



This subject is closed.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Ah, but did you believe you could have placed yourself and other road users at risk?
How does this compare with today’s limits, which are on average lower than those of 10 years ago?


I disagree. Safespeed has recently had so much media coverage within this area, TV, radio, and newspaper; this is measurable. It was SafeSpeed who converted me - yes I was previously pro-camera simply because like you I ‘followed the herd’, now I have considered what is going on and am shocked with what I have seen. It was Safespeed who helped bring about the recent moratorium against speed cameras. It is Safespeed who is highlighting the dirty practices of the SCPs (RTTM, bias on selection). I think he has done extremely well given the resource he has (especially when compared against the resource of the SCPs).

Apart from the yawn factor, one thing has emerged from this: I have never looked at C+ and I certainly won't in future.

Perhaps we should start a Blind Prejudice forum. I'd fit in well there.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

You feel you'd fit in well with a Blind Prejudice forum? Malcolm, I don't know you cos I'm a newbie, but I'm sure that's not true. Don't be so harsh on yourself!