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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 18:37 
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what about dr l has written to his mp about evedence being tampered and witheld blah blah police complaints upheld did not know how to operate two videos properly blah

"police relly on us all being to busy to chalange speeding tickets... "

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


Last edited by anton on Fri Dec 08, 2006 23:53, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 18:55 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
Useful, thanks. I might well be able to build that into a PR. I still need a news hook...

'Safe Speed demands openness, honesty and a fair trial' perhaps?


"Camera partnerships change the law - motorists are guilty until proven innocent" ?? :twisted:

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 14:29 
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Below is a précis of my email to Steve Farrell of MCN, copied to various MPs.

If you have accepted that you were the driver/rider of the vehicle, then you can ask for the photos/video under the Data Protection Act, as shown in a previous letter I got from the Information Commissioner's Office (a précis of which is also shown below)

The Data Protection Act request can be of the form “I am making a Subject Access Request under section 7(1) of the 1998 Data Protection Act requiring that you provide me with a copy of all the information you are holding with respect to the speeding allegation you have made against me, including any photographic or video recording you have made. I look forward to promptly receiving the requested information.”

There is a fee of £10 for this. This may not be required, but if you don’t include it with your request, then it provides an excuse to delay the response for a further 40 days. You may also be asked for proof of identity. If you accept your were the driver then you should make your Data Protection Act request as soon as possible after receiving the NIP, in order to obtain and analyse the evidence prior to expiry of the fixed penalty offer.

With respect to the transcription of the MCN article, I apologise for some transcription errors, but some unevenness and distortion of the image scan from Anton made the character recognition a bit uncertain.

My email to Steve Farrell I wrote:
To: Steve Farrell of MCN
cc: Steve Ladyman MP; Owen Paterson MP; Lembit Öpik MP; My own MP

I was absolutely appalled to read the article in the MCN of 6 December 2006, that the police are refusing to send both complete photos from GATSO speed cameras when asked to do so. This is a total abuse of their position and it is an absolute disgrace that they are stooping to such despicable practice. (For reference I included a transcript of the article)

Surely any driver/rider should be allowed to review the full photo/video evidence of their vehicle to check the validity of the speeding allegation, before opting to take the case to court. It is surely about time this was made a standard legal entitlement by this government.

I had similar problems with the police, with them refusing to send me the speeding video of my car from an LTI 20.20 camera van. They were eventually forced to provide this under the Data Protection Act before I had a court hearing, but did not do so until I had opted to take the case to court and they had received a letter from my MP to the Chief Constable. Even when they were force to send the video they removed four out of every five frames, which made it look like I was going at 200mph in the 40mph limit.

Currently this is being pursued with an appeal through the Independent Police Complaints Commission and the police have so far admitted to incorrectly operating the video copying equipment, showing incompetence, mal-practice and negligence.

I am currently appealing again to the Independent Police Complaints Commission for them to investigate how many other drivers/riders were affected by this and even wrongly convicted as a result. I am aware of at least one case with a motorcyclist where this would seem to have happened, where it would seem such a manipulated video was used as evidence in court.

Various emails I received from the Information Commissioner's Office makes it clear that a driver/rider (who accepts they were the driver/rider) is entitled to obtain a copy of the photo/video evidence under the Data Protection Act, without having to take the case to court.

Regards, Dr L

Extract of a previous letter from the Information Commissioner's Office,
The Information Commissioner's Office wrote:
Dear Dr L

I write with reference to your complaint regarding the Police. The force should have now forwarded you a copy of the video images that they retain in relation to you.

It seems that the force had initially misunderstood their obligations and believed that a single still image of the specific offence would satisfy their obligations under Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998. I have now advised them appropriately of the requirements of the Data Protection Act 1998.

I have formed the view that the Police are likely to have contravened the Data Protection Act 1998 in failing to provide you with the information you were entitled to within 40 calendar days of your subject access request.

I have now advised the Police suitably to seek to ensure their future compliance with subject access requests of this kind.

Yours sincerely, ICO Compliance Officer

The Information Commissioner's Office also wrote:
Dear Dr L,

Thank you for your enquiry, I appreciate your concern that the Police are not complying with their obligations. There are some issues around this topic that I should perhaps explain.

Under the speeding enforcement rules a person is entitled to specific extracts of the photographic evidence to allow them to review the evidence against them. This is the standard photographic material routinely provided by the enforcement offices. This information is provided under rules outside of Data Protection.

The accused is not entitled to make any subject access request until they have clearly admitted / confirmed that they are the person the evidence relates to. Prior to admitting to being the driver of the vehicle in question, a person cannot make a subject access request for any information relating to the incident. The subject access request would not be valid until the applicant's identity and whether the images are the applicant's personal data has been confirmed beyond doubt by the data controller.

The person is entitled to make a subject access request at any time, I note that the force refer to having provided a subject access form with their letter, normal force procedures will require a subject access form to be completed prior to the subject access request being valid. Until the person completes the form and returns it to the Police - with any required confirmation of their identity as well as the appropriate fee (£10) – their request for information is unlikely to form a valid subject access request.

The law specifies that subject access requests are not valid until confirmation of identity and any required fee have been received by the data controller. The subject access request is then likely to be considered by the Data Protection department within the Police as appropriate. It is not possible for a person to make a subject access request for the information regarding the incident, and then seek to defend the charge by way of denying that they were the driver involved.

Yours sincerely, Information Commissioner's Office, Casework and Advice Officer


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