Safe Speed Forums

In a couple of nearby threads we've been talking about how mood might effect our driving. I'm sure most of us drive a bit "harder" if we're tense. In extreme cases people might "take it out on the car". I think this is always going to be a bad thing. Aggression, frustration or competitiveness are likely to lead to risky decision making. So how do we manage these feelings and avoid the risks?

I'll tell you what I do. I drive with varying degrees of what I call "attack". Maximum attack leads to maximum safe progress. I suppose the opposite extreme might be called "wafty mode", (well that's what we call it, anyway.)

When driving with high levels of attack, other road users are regarded as part of the environment to be managed, and never as individuals to be beaten. Of course you have to recognise that they are making their own choices.

But passing another vehicle should be no more emotional than driving around a bend. I don't get annoyed with bends and I don't get annoyed with other road users. They are both simply hazards to be negotiated.

That's not to say that I wouldn't observe all of the courtesys. Part of managing other road users involves not upsetting them and trying to ensure that they don't become aggressive or competitive.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Paul,

I've got to say that drivers sitting too close to my tail just gets me in a right tizzy , most other actions I can ignore but this just riles me up. I do now try and avoid it as much as I can as I can see it leading to an accident or altercation which no one really wants. In my mind I would only perform the same action if I were a complete tosser just intent on annoying the person in front, which I am not and I wouldn't so this is why I get in such a tizzy over the thought of this other person intent on annoying me . It is also very dangerous as you can end up in a game of cat and mouse where you speed up a bit to rid the menace and they then catch up as you start slowing down again (a bit like having a big piece of elastic attached to the 2 cars), during this time your eyes are focused on the rear view and not ahead. All I try and do now, if safe to do so, is pull in close to the verge and slow down to let them past or get back to the inside lane on a dual carriageway or m/way.

Andrew

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Homer Simpson

The area immediately behind your car is part of your safety space, and I can quite understand how easy it is to become annoyed when someone violates your safety space.

But you can manage the space behind you effectively almost all of the time. See http://www.safespeed.org.uk/tailgate.html

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I have long since stopped getting upset by tailgaters unless they are agressively close. My method of dealing with those who follow just a bit too close is to subtlely increase my own following distance, thereby holding a safe stopping distance for us both. This only fails if the distance I hold from the car in front of me is sufficient to allow entry into that space from a side road, and the gap is taken, and a hazard develops that requires braking at the same time.

If one is following really close behind me, again I exaggerate the distance (subtlely, not proving a point) and hope that he chooses to go around me. Then I can hang behind him and watch him make a fool of himself.

Edit: Paul's post appeared while mine was in composition!

I was driving from Leicester to Peterborough last night (the dreaded A47)

Overtaking is difficult at the best of times and I try to be chilled.

It was slightly foggy (not bad) in patches so overtaking could be risky.

This guy in a Mondeo was doing about 50 (max) and braked hard everytime he saw headlights comming the other way or bend signs. We got to the speed cameras on a 50 streach and he slammed the brakes on again down to 35. His speed was up and down between 35 and 50, no logic to it.

I finaly got passed at a roundabout. Then maintained between 50 and 60 for the rest of the journey.

Sorry but after what seemed like forever, roadrage finaly started to take hold..

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Speed camera policy Kills

Pointless braking maybe just makes it into my annoying 'zone'



I had a discussion about this before with Paul and I really thought the close overtaking position was quite dangerous unless the driver has to overtake on a bendy road with limited overtaking 'window'.

I only feel the need to overtake on straight roads such as the A9 where there are a multitude of vehicles all at different speeds so I try and stay back so I can see further when a straight bit approaches and then plan the overtake. The overtake may be 2 lorries and 8 cars as I have done before at only 65-70MPH to get past.

Andrew

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It's a scam........or possibly a scamola


Homer Simpson

‘Focus’ is what I would use to describe that. The idea of taking nothing personally is a big hurdle to many drivers, who habitually guard what they see as theirs. There is a definite scale from aggression, through focused (where you want to be) and descent into wafty, thumb in bum mode.



It is in our own interests to ensure that other road users (including pedestrians) don't become aggressive, and courtesy costs little. I give other drivers the courtesy of respecting their space and pace and I give pedestrians the courtesy of not speeding near their homes. Sometimes, there is a conflict between these goals (e.g. when I get tailgated in a village road <= 30 mph), but the residents/pedestrians get the benefit of the doubt from me because a) tailgaters should not be rewarded and b) pedestrians aren’t wearing steel armour and don’t have air bags. If drivers had practised this some time back, residents might have remained passive, and less might have supported traffic claming measures and cameras.

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I stole this .sig

I don't think so. Traffic calming is the new face of political correctness. I have seen it applied localy where there is no history of speeding traffic.

The funny thing is the locals who fought to have it put in are now calling to have it taken out again becuase of the increased conjestion and noise, not to mention the fact that they are getting penalty points...No pleasing some people...

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Speed camera policy Kills

I have to admit that I have a lot of respect for people who can maintain their cool and rationality in the face of aggressive driving, particularly when it is directed at them. Tailgating is probably the best example of this, and when it happens to me I can feel myself getting angry; the more prolonged and obvious it is, the more I want the tailgater to receive some sort of come-uppance - retribution that seldom if ever occurs.
I used to be a lot worse than I am now though, and would try all sorts of stuff, speeding up/slowing down, dabbing the brakes, flashing the fog lights etc etc. This usually had the effect of enraging the tailgater into even more aggressive behaviour and it all nearly went horribly Pete Tong on two memorable occaisions.
On the first I was returning home from a day out in Skegness when I picked up Mr Tailgater a few miles outside Spalding. He made a few ridiculous attempts to pass but was still behind me as we entered the town. I decided to slow right down and was doing about 25-30 mph, letting out everybody from side roads I could in fact, generally being an arse The Tailgater shot shot off down a side road and I had a hunch he knew a back route through the town but decided that was that. Not so. On the far side of town the tailgater emerged from a side street right in front of me at an absurd speed and, being unable to gain the correct side of the road mounted the kerb on the opposite side. Luckily there was nobody there He actually ended up two cars behind me but fortunately we went our seperate ways about a mile later.
The second occurence was about four years ago whilst I was returning home from a Sunday afternoon studying session at the university in Walsall. I was on the M54 in L2 (its only got 2 lanes) about to pass 2 cars when simultaneously the rearmost car pulled into L2, and a VW Sharanne thingy came piling up behind me at over a ton and proceeded to tailgate me outrageously. I went incandescent with rage and literally trod on the brake pedal giving the VW driver the shock of his life but also enraging him - these people rarely see things in the same way from their side of the windscreen do they?. To cut a long and embarassing story short, I ended up in Telford central nick having been breathalysed and answering the VW drivers accusation of aggressive driving. Nothing came of it but let me tell you this, if you have any humility at all (which I gather Mr VW didn't) there's nothing can make you feel more of a complete dickhead than the calm yet persuasive mien of two In Gears who've probably scraped more dickheads off the local highways than I've had hot dinners
Sorry that was so long, but it taught me a lesson....DROP IT, IT AIN'T WORTH IT. And if that means letting a tailgater get away with it, so be it.

Well, the M54 has quite an effect on some people doesn't it. I confess that a couple of months ago, pulling onto the M54 at J5 to go home, i.e. eastbound, I was accelerating up to 70mph (your honour) and overtaking something large and slow when stereotypical rep-in-a-BMW came up behind me rather faster and obviously resented waiting while I cleared the other vehicle. Like a fool, as he passed me I gave him the "dickhead" salute, he can't have had his eyes on the road because his reaction was to cut me up viciously, almost causing a collision. We sped up again, and blow me if he didn't try the same trick a second time. By now somewhat concerned, I resolved to let him get some way away, and he pulled off at J4. Lesson learned, don't let it get to you - he might be as much of a dickhead as you think!

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Keep right on to the end of the road ...

Standard practise when dealing with a "dickhead pass" is to pre-emptively slow down a bit, so that he does his cut up move on empty space. Of course, you shouldn't really have flipped him the bird in the first place. That's what got him going, but I know what it's like on the motroways.

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I stole this .sig

Well I've previouslyt made my thoughts on the standard of driving on the M54, particularly in the evening when folks are treading on each others knackers to get home. Ironically the two trafpol I was interviewed by said that they couldn't understand why people got so wound up on the M54, compared with the M6 it's a doozy to drive along (this was before the toll road opened).

(Added later)
Hmm, think I've been psychoanalysed by a workmate here He was watching me reply to this thread and asked what it was about. I replied it was a discussion group about road safety and that I was talking about being tailgated.
Him: He asked why I got annoyed with it
Me: Because its dangerous aggresive driving aimed at me and compromising my safety I replied. I don't need pushing in the back by someone I don't even know to be ordered out of their way.
Him: Yet you move across eventually he responded
Me: Yes of course
Him: So whats the difference?
Me: I don't want them to think that their tailgating has 'won' them my co-operation.
Him: Do you ever think the tailgater sees it the same way, or even cares what you think (I can see where this is going by now)
Me: Probably not
Him: So you may just as well give them what they want, even if it means rewarding their bad behaviour. Unless you intend ending up in the same smoking wreckage that they do..
Me: Well I still wish I had some device that would explode their engine and bring up a message saying "Thats for being a tailgating asshole" on their dashboard.
But he's right isn't he?

Added again later
BTW, I forgot to mention. This colleague has the temperament of Ned Flanders, I don't think anything could piss him off. He isn't human

Sometimes I think you need to be Ned Flanders out there. I'm not, but I won't be repeating that trick again. Counting to 10 seems to work better, that and imagining the culprit pulled over by Plod on the hard shoulder. Although, with the disappearance of Plod from the highway, imagining is probably all it will ever be

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Keep right on to the end of the road ...

Attack is possibly not the best word to use but you are very right in what you say about the attitude of the driver - get in your car after a row with the wife or such like and you are more likely to drive in an aggressive an reckless manner. The best thing to do is to avoid driving in those moods or learn to control them.

One of the best things to do is to concentrate 100% on the driving and what you are doing. Commentry to yourself can really help with this and you'll find that you soon loose aggressive urges.

Rich

Someone did a cut up move on my van, in some little tiny car. i nudged the rear end and he fliped right round in the road, where I left him.

On the whole i tend to class myself as an assertive, rather than aggressive, driver, as very little really winds me up. Tailgating does, particularly if there's no where to move to, foglights in inappropriate conditions.

I do find that people get increasingly competitive when you're overtaking them. Quite apart from the occasional ones who actively try and prevent anyone passing by accelerating, cutting up etc there are a significant number who (perhaps not intentionally) will gently accelerate as you pass them on a dual carriageway or motorway. This obviously happens more on downhill stretches. i also find it's more frequent with a small speed differential (say 5mph) than with a larger one of say 15-20mph.

I don't mind this as such, as i catch myself doing it occasionally, but it gets frustrating in the Peugeot which doesn't usually have any extra torque to get me past quickly and i sometimes have to brake and pull in for safety's sake.

What is it about overtaking that tempts blokes to speed up as others pass? Is there some kind of tribal 'leadership' motivation in this?

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I stole this .sig

It's people like you who encourage others to show their disapproval of reckless behaviour like overtaking

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

You have pulled out below the traveling speed, i take it, so can understand that you would have a car up your tail pretty quickly.



Is it a stereotypical BMW driver, or your stereotypical judgement

I drive a range of differant vehicles, and i have to say, i get alot of aggression my way when i am in the bmw

Yet my driving is the same

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Steve

I wasn't talking about just men, i find this phenomenon equally applying to men and women, in my experience.

What i perhaps should have added was that when i catch myself doing this, i do check(i.e. not increase) my speed and sometimes slow down to allow the other person to pass quickly and safely.