Safe Speed Forums

With the foggy season under way and some drivers using/not using fog lights I was wondering about opinion on this.
If I am the last car in a "train" of vehicles and the weather warrents it I turn on my rear fog light, however if another vehicle joins behind me and is in my judgement close enough to see me without the fog light I turn it off as I don't want to dazzle them.
As a plea can someone invent a device that records drivers with inappropriate fog lights on and seriously damage their wallets

_________________
Stupid is as Stupid does

I agree with you totally on your use of fog lights. And headlights also. Every day especially in Winter I see drivers with their full headlights on or even high beam on in like broad daylight. People are lazy if they get in the car and its maybe a little dull, perhaps warranting the use of sidelights they just turn the full headlights on because they haven,t got the inteligence to know the difference & at the end of the day their lights being on full beam isn't blinding them so they don't give a shit. Foglights are especially bad, the slightest silly wee big of fog and bang the fog lights go on and they will stay on for about 4 months until they notice that they have been left on. And you can flash your lights at them till the cows come home, they are totaly obvlivious..Retards !!

I am not convinced how effective fog lights are anyway. They are not a requirement at all in some countries.

It would be difficult to enforce the actual use. You would need Police in cars to do that..

Nowadays type approval requires the fog lights to reset when the ignition or lights are turned off so they don't get left on all the time. Only applied from about 10 years ago though.

The worst thing is when they are used in the rain...

_________________
Speed camera policy Kills

Sorry, but my attitude is that side lights are for parking, not for driving.
In diminished vision, it is dipped beam, whether it be just a bit dark or foggy.
I also use dipped beam in rain.
IMO if my visibility is reduced, then so is everybody elses.
The use of sidelights when moving should be outlawed, particularly in rain on motorways, I drive HGVs for a living, and you would not like to know how many times I've nearly sideswiped a car, particularly light coloured ones, who sit in the spray coming off a HGV, they are damn near invisible. If they were to use lighting appropiate for the occasion, dipped beam, then other road users will be able to see them.

_________________
Semper in excreta, nur quantitat variat.

Kenco said
When I drive my BMW and I remember I use my low beam ALL the time, in my Subaru the headlights are left PERMANENTLY on as the ignition turns off ALL lights including the parking lights.

Motorbikes have to have their headlights on by law to make them easier to see, so what's different about a car?

In New Zealand some years ago I recall them having a "lights on Friday" to test the effects of driving with headlights on during the day and although I have no supporting documentation I was told by a local that the accident rate was usually lower on Fridays after the trial commenced.

I 100% agree about fog lights, especially the rear one. In my 50 years I can only recall driving 3-4 times in genuine fog. The rest of the time there is either NO fog or fog so light you can see for at least 100 metres so there is NO need for the damn things over here. It has even been made illegal to drive with fog lights on during the day. The number of Hyundai drivers I see with the rear fog light on is just incredible. They have NO IDEA it's on because they have NO IDEA there is even a fog light there, the switch gets bumped and they stay on forever!

My term for someone driving with fog lights on in clear weather, particularly during the day, is WANKER!

Someone driving with low beam during the day is fine as it causes no problem with glare unless their lights are incorrectly aligned and I can see them from a long way off.

_________________
Ross

Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!

The problem is that Motorbikes are hard to see at the best of times. New bikes don't have a light switch, they are on all the time.

In the UK(and Europe) they were going to make it law to drive with the lights on permanantly by hard wiring it in the car from the factory. But it was dropped for two reasons...
1) It would make motorbikes harder to see. The could be masked by the car headlights.
2) In Italy it is actualy illegal to use daytime running lights. Therefore you could not drive over there in a UK spec car.

_________________
Speed camera policy Kills

It does cause a problem with glare to a lot of people. In my view it is an extremely selfish and inconsiderate practice in conditions of normal visibility.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

There is usually a way of leaving sidelights on. On my Fiat, with the ignition off, the only thing that works is the horn (typical Italian!), but the sidelights can be left on by pressing a button and turning the key backwards before removing it.
British cars do not have daylight running lights.
Cars are bigger and easier to see, unless your eyesight is defective and not that many know how to use the load compensating device on the headlights!

A grey/blue car on a grey day can be just as hard to see as a bike. If having them turned on reduces the chance of a crash by only 1% (and I'm sure it's a lot higher than that) then those few that find the "glare" uncomfortable will just have to wear it.

I can honestly say that since I have been using my headlights I have not had one car pull out in front of me through not seeing me. I still get the odd aggressive driver who will jump in quickly but not the "Oh shit I didn't see you type". In fact I never see that type when I drive my Subaru because the lights are on ALL the time as the ignition turns off all lights.

Having the lights on means that I am more likely to see you and you are more likely to see me so this can only be a safer practice than not having them turned on.

In summary, I'm sorry if my lights bother the occasional motorist but mine will stay on at all times while I am driving.

_________________
Ross

Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!

Then i'm glad you're in Ossie!

I agree entirely. I also concur about the grey/silver car issue. Both our cars are silver and in anything but bright, broad daylight I will drive with dipped headlights on.

Regarding front 'fog' lamps, IMHO some people have an obsessional bee in their bonnet regarding the use of front lights that are set low in bumpers apart from the main headlamp unit. Some people regard them as 'poser' lights and flash furiously at anyone using them. Some plods will even pull people over because of some vague regulations regarding their use.

Well, anyone who argues that they dazzle oncoming traffic clearly has NO IDEA how they function. Correctly mounted and adjusted, these lights are set low and produce a very wide beam in order to light the edges of the road - there is no way they could possibly dazzle oncoming traffic.

Incidentally, regarding Hyundais - I used to have one and was pulled by a trafplod who (incorrectly informed me that the yellow (standard fit, type approved) fog lamps on my car were illegal.

Likewise. I certainly don't have a problem with other vehicles driving around all day with their dipped beams turned on, provided they're properly aligned...





"Correctly mounted and adjusted"... yep, and that's the problem, just as it is with headlights. There are a growing number of drivers out there who seem totally oblivious to the misalignment of their lights and the trouble it causes other road users. There's also a growing number of vehicles out there where one or both headlights are broken, and the driver is then using the front fogs as a poor substitute. Basically, in my experience of London/SE England driving, the majority of people driving around with their front fogs lit up at all times are the drivers who don't seem to care much about other road users, probably don't pay much attention to basic vehicle maintenance, and are therefore the sort of driver you need to stay away from - hmm, perhaps letting them drive around with their fog lights on all day isn't such a bad thing, if it gives the rest of us advance warning of their numptyness

"Full headlights" to me means main beam, where the little blue indicator appears on the dashboard, and which WILL blind any oncoming traffic, but I'm guessing in the context you've used it, it means dipped beam to you?



As others have said, and I'll add my support to, if the ambient lighting is such that you think you need to use any form of lighting, then dipped beam is the way to go. Sidelights are useful when you're parked, but not whilst in motion. I'd suggest that it's the numpties driving around on sidelights who lack intelligence. Particularly the ones who think sidelights+streetlights makes them visible when it's dark and raining




Are we now talking full beam as in main beam, or full beam as in dipped beam? Because I'd agree with you that someone using main beam when there's oncoming traffic is an idiot. But using dipped beam shouldn't be dazzling anyone, provided their lights are properly maintained. And if they aren't, then they're still an idiot - but for not keeping their vehicle in decent working order, not for thinking that dipped beam is a good idea.

When I first started driving, in London in the early 1970s, driving on sidelights was the norm on well lit streets. On quieter, less well lit streets, I used to pull my mainbeams on with the flasher.

Overall I believe that visibility of the full range of hazards was better. Without dipped headlight there was no glare at all, and no where that one didn't choose to look.

Towards the end of the 70s, more and more folk started using dips. Some of us tried to resit the trend, but it wasn't long before we realised that we needed dips a) to be seen and b) to help fill in some of the shadows caused by glare from others' dips.

I really reckon the old way was the better.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

The dim-dip lights which were required on UK-market cars from about 1985 to 1995 were a sensible compromise - brighter than sidelights, but nowhere near as dazzling as dipped main beam headlights. Unfortunately I think EU harmonisation did for them.

On well-lit streets, you don't need headlights to see yourself, and they are considerably brighter than is really needed for others to see you.


Indeed - if most other drivers are using dips you make yourself exposed by only using sidelights or dim-dips.

If everyone else is shouting you have to shout yourself to be heard, unfortunately.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

r11co, you missed out 6 words after 'edges of the road' - 'in fog and in the dark', as they are totally useless in daylight (apart from causing dazzle to oncoming drivers).

Is that the strains of Dvorak's Largo (aka 'Hovis' theme) I can hear behind you as you speak those words, Paul

Headlamp design has improved in leaps and bounds since the '70's, largely due to CAD allowing the production of tailored refectors to make sure the light goes where they want it and little is wasted (completely clear, flat lenses), unlike days of old (cue the music again) when they made do with concave reflectors and crude prismatic lenses to do the job, so there should be much less glare these days.

Plus, of course, it seems mainenance of street lights ain't what it used to be...

r11co, you missed out 6 words after 'edges of the road' - 'in fog and in the dark', as they are totally useless in daylight (apart from causing dazzle to oncoming drivers).
Also, the regulations are not vague, they are very accurate:- Foglights may only be used when visibility is LESS than 100metres!

Nonsense - and you seem to be one of the 'bee in the bonnet' brigade. Properly aligned, the only road occupiers who should be dazzled by these lights are foxes and hedgehogs.

I wouldn't use them in daylight, but in darkness they light kerbs, traffic islands and roadside furniture very well, and cut under the glare you get from headlamps shining on rain or spray.

I'll repeat myself, as you seem to be hard of hearing:- Foglights must only be used in fog or falling SNOW, not rain, when visibility is less than 100metres!!!!!! (Front and rear).
A legal obligation, not a request!