Safe Speed Forums

I find this guy's attitude unbearable. He claims drivers that speed are as bad in terms of crime as vandals and yobs. The only reason he says this is because he can then 'justify' sticking cameras in every street in Wales.

I thought police were meant to live in the real world to deal with real people and understand the effect crimes have on people. When was the last time anyone got upset when a car went past driving at 45 in a 40 limit???

I think the victims of vandalism and violence would probably have something to say about the relative effects of these types of crimes.

Is this attitude completely absurd or is it just me?
Speak freely if you disagree - I'm not here to try to force my version of the truth onto anyone.

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Why does no-one whine about muggers, rapists and murderers any more? Because drivers are the REAL criminals.......

I moved this topic from "news". Can we please try to keep it tidy?

Yes, I'm no fan of Brunstrom either. We have had a few "dealings" with the "man":

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/brunstrom.html
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/brunstrom2.html
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/brunstrom3.html
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/brunstrom4.html

Don't miss that last one!

Also:

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/nwpa.html
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/arrivealive.html

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Er, when you are trying to pull out onto a road along which drivers are speeding, particularly if they are appearing from around a corner. Just like getting out of my own road actually.

It can't be that often that 5mph makes the difference between your being able to get out at a given moment and not being able to, surely.

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-mike[F]
Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..

Hah!

Well, what does that matter? Listen Rigpig - lots of junctions on fast roads. You trying to tell me you are incapable of judging speed at that kind of junction. You would have same level of difficulty surely whether 40 or 50 limit on a busy road. Always frustrating though - just when you think it's clear --- another twazak comes tootling around the corner. But then - you could do it to me!

Nope, sorry guys you've not sold this one to me.

MM, yes I know there are loads of junctions on 'fast' roads, they are also preceded by signs which warn oncoming drivers of a potential hazard ahead. Urban or rural village roads seldom display signs warning of an upcoming exit from a residence or side street.

The village in which my MIL lives in Licolnshire is case in point, exiting from her front yard is really tricky - the view to the right is blocked by a well developed hedgerow (well developed, not overgrown or unkempt). Here a 5mph difference in speed can mean all the difference between a safe exit and one where another drive is forced to brake, particulary if you commit to pulling out at precisely the moment a vehicle appears from around the corner. I should know, one day whilst travelling through the village in the troublesome direction at the limit or thereabouts (my wife won't let me speed through her village so I know how fast I was going) we rounded the corner just as the next-door-neighbour was pulling out. Fortunately I braked to a near stop in time, and I knew the hazard existed.

At the junction I originally referred to, my own, the chap who owns the corner house says there have been 5 shunts in 3 years there (I only rcall one, but have onlybeen here 18 months). OK, so he doesn't say how they all occured, but there is a problem and I'm always wary pulling out, particularly as my Escort doesn't accelerate like a Williams/BMW

In sum, I maintain that there are times when 5mph over the limit can make a difference and that it causes people to complain.

Thanks for hearing me out.[/i]

Rigpig,

The limit that's being exceeded in your example is not the speed limit, but the safe speed for the circumstances.

Too much emphasis on speed limits is making this problem worse as drivers delegate responsibility for speed choice to the speed limit.

It's an excellent example of why we need to give out proper messages about speed.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Equally there are times when doing 25 mph rather than 20 mph in a 30 limit can make a vital difference to safety.

A speed limit can only ever be a rough approximation to a safe speed.

Regards,

Peter

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

If they're speeding they'll be past and out of your way more quickly

Regards,

Peter

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

How far is your road from the corner? Let's say it's 25 metres, for arguments sake. At 40mph it would take a car 1.4 seconds to cover that distance, while at 45mph it would take 1.25 seconds. The difference is only 0.15 seconds. That means that, should the other car appear around the corner at 40mph 0.15 seconds earlier, or you pull out 0.15 seconds later, the effect would be the same as if the other car was doing 45. The difference is minimal. In this example there would have been insufficient time for the other car to brake in either case.

If the distance was longer, say 100 metres, there would be no problem in either case.
This appears to be precisely the sort of situation where a well-placed warning sign is needed. Perhaps even a speed limit, depending on the probability that someone is going to be pulling out at the precise time that another vehicle is rounding the corner. But, given that speed limits have been used inappropriately for so long, such a speed limit is likely to be ignored.

Regards
Peter

Correct sir. Thus it stands to reason that in some instances the speed limit WILL be correct and appropriate for the circumstances and exceeding it by as little as 5mph could be inappropriate and gives folks a legitimate cause for complaint. Which, in a round-about way was my original point.

Can we split this hair down any finer ?

No-one here will disagree with you on that point, but as Peter has already pointed out, widespread abuse of speed limits for misguided or even nefarious purpose has led to them being discredited ( read this for a satirical illustration of the point - http://www.abd.org.uk/ht-kills.htm).

The sort of danger this leads to is exactly what Paul is campaigning against!

Perhaps, however, in your case there is an argument for improved road engineering and better visibility so the driver can see for themselves the potential for danger. Warning signs too will be ignored if they start to proliferate unnecessarily.

Strategically placed mirrors used to be the solution to the type of problem you describe, but of course punish rather than prevent seems to be the credo these days.....