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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 18:20 
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Interestingly, I've just done an on-line opinion poll for YouGov which included lots of questions about road-pricing and voting intentions - I suspect people are more rattled than they are letting on.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 18:27 
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prof beard wrote:
Interestingly, I've just done an on-line opinion poll for YouGov which included lots of questions about road-pricing and voting intentions - I suspect people are more rattled than they are letting on.


Sounds like a news organisation poll to me.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 19:23 
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andys280176 wrote:
It's back on again:

Signatures: 1,584,442 ? I'm sure it was this figure about 3 days ago!

Andrew


It was about 1,581,000 right as Top Gear mentioned it, I went on straight away so I could make a comparison. 52,000 since then, much lower than I would have expected, I think a lot of people gave up when they saw the 503 error, but I expect a fair few might have checked back, although it closes tomorrow.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 19:48 
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An interesting article in this sundays financial mail.
Seems that insurance companies are considering having insured vehicles fitted with "insurance distance pricing" units....that's in addition to norwich unions current plan of having high-premium drivers use one. They would charge extra for late night/early morning driving as well as distance driving. As much as 25 quid extra a night !!

Background:
http://www.24dash.com/columnists/39/144/column.htm

Interesting reading:
http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.com/pa/cm200405/cmselect/cmtran/218/21810.htm


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:11 
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The Scotsman newspaper wants to talk urgently to someone in Scotland who signed the petition. Ideally, someone in Edinburgh.

Contact: adalton@scotsman.com

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 14:29 
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Bit on midday news - asking opinions - T2000 "Any profit should go toward better public transport" ---we know where the profit (forget may be a profit/any or similar) is headed - another of Browns bottomless pits, like the VED etc.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 14:29 
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Great letter in Yesterday's Telegraph...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main ... dt1901.xml

Quote:
Congestion chaos

Sir - Road pricing on passenger cars is a socially unfair and probably ineffective method of reducing congestion (News, February 17). For the private motorist, it is severely regressive on the poor and those of moderate means. It is particularly regressive where the options of public transport are unsatisfactory or unavailable, a condition that applies to large portions of this country.

The fairest means of controlling the usage of the private car is congestion itself. We each give up time to a chosen trip; the valuation is proportionate to the means of the various individuals.

On the other hand, road pricing is fairer when applied to vehicles involved in the carriage of goods, but it is largely ineffective. These vehicles are involved in trade and the costs are transferred to consumers of the goods that are carried. There is no evidence that road pricing will significantly reduce the proportion of commercial vehicles using the roads at peak or off-peak times.

The arguments put forward in support of widespread road pricing are largely spurious, unproven and ill-considered.

Norman Ashford, Emeritus Professor of Transport Planning, Loughborough University

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 14:40 
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My colleage has been worrying how he will get to southampton from winchester under congestion charging.

he thinks he will use local village roads at 5p a mile rather than the motorway at 25p a mile.

All spurious guess work, but the road network pricing will have to make trunk roads cheaper or all traffic will flood onto small local roads.

or it will have to price the trip from start to stop and charge the city to city rate + penalise the mis-use of rural roads whilst not penalising the genuine local user.

I think it will be a disaster!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 15:05 
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1.7m

And ten hours to go.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 15:21 
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Another good article by Christopher Booker pointing out what a farce galileo is already turning into...

Quote:

A fiasco on this scale could be seen from space

As the Downing Street petition saying "no to road charging" breaks all records by soaring past the 1.5 million mark, one crucial factor gets overlooked. Our Transport Secretary, Douglas Alexander, may say he "welcomes a debate" on what, last May, he called his "personal priority", but he knows full well that in this respect we have little choice.

Regardless of how many people log on to the Downing Street website to say that they don't want it, we are committed to basing any road charging scheme on the EU's Galileo satellite system. The only trouble is that the EU is making such a shambles of it that it is highly unlikely to be in place before 2020, if they can get it to work at all.
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The reason that Mr Alexander describes charging motorists for using the roads (at up to £1.34 a mile) as his "personal priority" is that three years ago Brussels issued EC directive 2004/52 on "the interoperability of electronic toll collection systems", to ensure that all the EU's planned road charging schemes are similar. But herein lie two practical difficulties.

First, Brussels is committed to drawing up a "technical standard", to which all national systems must conform, and so far, due to the huge technical problems involved, there is no sign of it emerging. A second problem is that the EU scheme is to be based on Galileo, its rival satellite system to the US Navstar. And Galileo - to which UK taxpayers have already contributed £200 million in development costs - is itself a shambles.

Despite the fanfares which greeted the launch, courtesy of a Russian Soyuz rocket, of the EU's first trial satellite last year, it is now clear that Galileo's future is fraught with difficulty. Within a few years Russia and China will join the US in having their own global positioning satellite systems, free to users all over the world. Galileo alone will depend on charging users for an encrypted signal, and since Cornell University last year cracked its operating code, the commercial future of the system looks increasingly uncertain.

As Galileo's development bills soar, it cannot even be guaranteed to become operational, although Mr Alexander has already promised £2.5 billion to local authorities by 2015, under his Transport Innovation Fund, so long as they agree to charge for road use. Our Government is thus locked into a hugely unpopular and complex project which we cannot have any assurance will work.

Mr Alexander obviously cannot tell us this, because it would be too embarrassing. Instead he tells us we can have a "debate", to which he has absolutely no intention of listening. But the chances that we will get our EU road charging system even by 2020 (it was originally promised for 2012) become slimmer by the day. If it wasn't all so time-wasting and dishonest, it would be quite funny. As the Downing Street petition saying "no to road charging" breaks all records by soaring past the 1.5 million mark, one crucially important factor gets overlooked. Our Transport Secretary Alastair Darling may say he "welcomes a debate" on what he last May called his "personal priority", but he knows full well we have very little choice in the matter.

Regardless of how many people say on the Downing Street website they don't want it, under EU policy we are committed to setting up a satellite-based system for taxing motorists - the only trouble being that the EU is making such a shambles of it that it is highly unlikely to be in place before 2020, if they can get it to work at all.

The reason that Mr Darling describes charging motorists up to £1.34 a mile for using the roads as his "personal priority" is that three years ago Brussels issued EC directive 2004/52 on "the interoperability of electronic toll collection systems", to ensure that all the EU's planned road charging schemes are similar. But herein lie two practical problems.

First, Brussels is committed to drawing up a "technical standard", to which all national systems must conform, and so far, so huge are the technical problems involved, there is no sign of this emerging. A second problem is that the EU scheme is to be based on Galileo, its rival satellite system to the US Navstar. And Galileo - to which UK taxpayers have already contributed £200 million in development costs - is itself in a shambles.

Despite the fanfares which last year greeted the launch of the EU's first trial satellite last year, courtesy of a Russian Soyuz rocket, it is now clear that Galileo's future is fraught with difficulty. Within a few years the US, Russia and China will all have their own global positioning satellite systems, free to users all over the world, Galileo alone will be dependent for its viability on charging its users for using an encrypted signal, and since Cornell University last year cracked its operating code, the commercial future of the system looks increasingly uncertain. As its development bills soar, it cannot even be guaranteed ever to become operational, although Mr Alexander has already promised £2.5 billion to local authorities by 2015, under his Transport Innovation Fund, so long as they agree to charge for road use.

Our Government is thus locked into a hugely unpopular and complex project which we cannot have any assurance will work. Mr Alexander obviously cannot tell us this, because it would be too embarrassing. Instead he tells us we can have a "debate", to which he has absolutely no intention of listening. But the chances that we will get our EU road charging system even by 2020 (it was originally promised for 2012) become slimmer by the day. If it wasn't all so time-wasting and dishonest, it would be quite funny.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 16:57 
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Now 1.71m

In 2 hours it has put on 10,000, with 8 hours to go.

Looks like 1.75m then.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 20:37 
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:gatso2: I read a report in Monday's Daily telegraph that road-pricing will initially cost £600 for every driver-half of that cost will immediately go towards administration costs.

Apparentlythe Government said today that IF road-pricing is introduced there MAY have to be a review of road tax.

Oh what a relief! (sarcasm mode...off)

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 20:50 
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It's at 1,746,774 and rushing up. 1.75m is easy now. >1.8m is possible.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 21:29 
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anton wrote:
he thinks he will use local village roads at 5p a mile rather than the motorway at 25p a mile.


Fantastic, I'll get to claim it back on expenses, so I can blat down an empty motorway free of charge while all you poor sods queue up on the B roads. I'm sure that MPs will also be claiming their trips back on expenses too.


Actually, I'm being sarcastic here, whilst it would personally benefit me in the manner described, I'm still against the scheme, there's more at stake here than just the contents of my pocket.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 21:31 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
It's at 1,746,774 and rushing up. 1.75m is easy now. >1.8m is possible.

1,755,036 now about 40 minutes later.

The scrapcam petition also seems to be getting a bit of a boost from being on the same page.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 01:01 
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1,791,363. This petition is now closed.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 01:08 
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Quote:
Road pricing petition - latest: The deadline chosen by the creator of the road pricing petition has now passed. Users who haven't clicked their confirmation links can still do so. This means the total signature count will continue to rise from the number at midnight on 20 February, which was 1,791,942. The petition can now be found in closed petitions. The Prime Minister's reply will be sent out shortly, and will also be on the No.10 homepage.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 01:42 
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Rising even in its departure:

1792402

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 02:14 
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Lum wrote:
anton wrote:
he thinks he will use local village roads at 5p a mile rather than the motorway at 25p a mile.


Fantastic, I'll get to claim it back on expenses, so I can blat down an empty motorway free of charge while all you poor sods queue up on the B roads. I'm sure that MPs will also be claiming their trips back on expenses too.


Actually, I'm being sarcastic here, whilst it would personally benefit me in the manner described, I'm still against the scheme, there's more at stake here than just the contents of my pocket.


You are SO right Lum, ... So right........Who gets the detailed readout about where you've been, at what time and at what speed?......


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 06:05 
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I'm quite scared about the prospect of all the road narrowing, badly designed one-way systems, speed limit reduction, traffic light rephasing, road works rescheduling and other congestion-boosting measures that the Government are going to inflict on us in order to "convince" us of the need for Road Pricing.....

Even if the system will NEVER work, they can still do a lot of damage by persisting with it.

It will be interesting to see, given the results of the e-petition, whether scrapping all plans for road pricing makes it into the opposition's list of election pledges when the time comes..

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