Safe Speed Forums

This is indeed under the typical SCP trigger threshold. Was the doctor done by plod or SCP?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

The speed limits used to be set at the nearest iteration to the free-flowing speed of the 85th %ile. These days they are set for any number of political or emotional reasons, the vast majority of which have sweet-F.A. to do with road safety.

In answer to Smeggy, I don't know but I'll ask when I next see him. Without looking at the evidence I just took what he said at face value, however, I do know he's not one to lie or exaggerate.

It happened to him about two years ago now. I won't disclose his name, for obvious reasons of confidentiality, but I should guess he's about 60 years old. He's never been done before because he's always very careful so exactly what lesson he is supposed to learn from this I have no idea and nor does he. He had no previous accidents or convictions; he drives everywhere at a snails pace. (But obviously not snail enough for the law these days).

I do know that if he can't drive, he can't work - and if he can't drive he may well go abroad like many others I have known. (Maybe this is the Governments hidden agenda). The incredulous look on his face when he told me was one of complete bemusement; "sixty pound fine and three points on my licence".

To reiterate; I am not suggesting this group, or any group, should have special dispensation or be above the law. I agree with the what was said the other day about NOT talking about groups. I only mention the group I did because they all work in rehabilitation and hence see the result of bad driving which I would have thought pertinent to this forum. If this group speed and are being done for speeding, despite what they see, doesn't this suggest something wrong with our law on speeding?

To put it a different way; if you have ever seen an accident or the aftermath of one, doesn't it make you think and slow down? Well this 'group' do all of the time and yet they still go over the limit as indeed we all do but it doesn't make us bad drivers.

If something like this started in France or America they would be up in arms - big time. We are a nation of sheep! The reason America has a constitution declaring the right to bare arms is so that if the government become too powerful "we, the people" can take our country back.

Now where did I put my Colt?

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

I always imagined that there would be a huge following on a site such as Safe Speed, and on the issue of speeding in particular, but there does seem to be much apathy. Since I feel like the silence is deafening, this may be my last woffle, which may be a relief, but I hope to cover one last very important aspect which doesn't affect just speeding but evidence gathering in general…

In a scientific study, if you are looking for something specific you tend to find evidence to support your research and by doing so you can miss the facts. This can work both ways of course so we should also be very careful when talking about the cons of speed cameras, which I believe Safe Speed does, to Paul's credit.

Experimenter's bias is the phenomenon in science by which the outcome of an experiment tends to be biased towards a result expected by the experimenter. The inability of a person, (or governing body), to remain completely objective is the ultimate source of this bias.

A scientific study should always be impartial. I don't think Safe Speed is looking for evidence just to support a ban of cameras. Moreover, I think we are all looking for the proof that they work - proof which should have been done before their introduction and widespread use! If evidence proves that it is effective in a black spot area - good! I welcome it! But the exception doesn't prove the rule.

Before speeding is targeted as the enemy, an impartial study should have been done. If I were trying to get a masters degree in the field of road safety, one way might be to plant an electronic device on a selection of people from ALL walks of life which monitors their journey using their chosen mode of transport over a period of time: Everyone from Syd Snot going on his Kawasaki to a Motorhead concert, to the head constable of road and traffic police in his Volvo on his way to give a lecture on road safety.

The conclusion may indeed look like proof that not everyone speeds, however, I would suggest this may be due to the 'Hawthorne' effect. This refers to the phenomenon that when people are observed in a study their behaviour or performance temporarily changes. (It's obvious really). Any study would have to be done with their permission in a double blind manner, but the truth is you may still have skewed results if people feel they are under scrutiny.

Poor data collection or surveys and inaccurate observations will lead to wrong conclusions - and dumb law enforcement!!! Therefore, it is of paramount importance that all things relevant are considered in a study. If you find, as I very strongly suspect, that everyone speeds, then isn't it hypocritical of 'whoever' to target speed as a means of making our roads safer? Where is the impartial evidence?

Any speed is dangerous! I don't deny it. The second you start moving you are using energy which could cause harm. In the wrong hands and in the wrong places, it's an accident waiting to happen. But I come back to my main argument - why aren't we targeting bad driving instead? The police have always had the power to prosecute someone who use speed inappropriately, as opposed to simply speeding.

A man I know of through my work was prosecuted for doing 28mph in a 30mph limit. He hit someone at this speed who unfortunately suffered brain damage as a result. The patient has no hope of recovery, he and his family are in effect serving a life sentence. A doctor at my work went to see him.

The driver was prosecuted because he was travelling down a road at this speed when there was a fayre on in a village. Would a speed camera have made a difference in this case? I don't think so, but I'm damn certain good driving would have made ALL the difference!!!
In conclusion: -

Where are the lions in this country? Surely, if we are going to barge into other countries, acting like self-appointed police of the world, and force something we call a democracy onto them, at the very least we should be able to prove that a democracy works.

I know this is not the place to get political and I understand we cannot have referenda for every little issue, that's why we appoint a government to do these things for us (well), in theory. But let's face it, we have a choice between two parties and anything else is no more than a protest vote. It's like having a choice between syphilis and gonorrhoea.

What a breath of fresh air it would be if someone in high office had the integrity and temerity to stand up to these small issues?

I'll finish with a quote (credited to Martin Niemoller): -

When the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out.

PS. Good luck Paul. If I win the lottery you will be one of the first to know. It sounds as though many or most people are taking your work for granted. I still believe time will bring out the truth but I'm returning to my flock now...


Que. What's worse, ignorance or apathy?
Ans. I don't know and I don't care

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

I'm under the impression that someone in LA gets bored, thinks about what they can do to irritate road-users, so reduces fast-flowing roads either by imposing an arbitrary speed limit, or by sticking in chicanes or bus-stop build-outs...

I'm certain there's no sensible reason behind it...

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

Hang about - are you really saying that there's so much apathy that it isn't worth the bother?

Isn't that totally self fulfilling?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Sorry Paul, but after I read about the lack of funding and one or two negative or 'banned from the site' people, I became rather despondent. I was also a bit fed up when I wrote that because I had just used a new pool car at work, (quite a nippy Octavia), and found myself over the limit many times without even trying!

I actually felt I could be a danger because I was looking at the Speedo, then for a road I'm trying to find, then the Speedo, then the cameras, then some lines on a road where there was once a camera - oh and occasionally I actually looked at the road. I confess, I am a more dangerous driver today than ever before in my life, but not because I speed!

I could have accrued enough points to be banned the other day and I thought to myself how pathetic this country has become. I AM patriotic but I'm also very glad that I can vote with my feet at any time and return to America for good where the emphasis is on keeping people moving, along with the wheels of industry. I may need to do just that before long.

I know driving is a privilege, not a right, but in the UK today with all it's out-of-town malls and lack of local shops, a car has become an absolute necessity for many of us.

We all know how pathetic our public transport is, so without private transport life is extremely difficult and as I've said before - many of us also need it for our work! For a few miles an hour over the limit you can be banned.

THE PUNISHMENT DOES NOT FIT THE CRIME!

Like I mentioned on another site; There's a twisted side to me which hopes that we will all start getting banned and then perhaps, when our services and society starts breaking down, they will realise they have shot themselves in the foot! Bring it on - Let's hope for new legislation like 'one strike and your out' and see how the country runs then...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

HAL here.

Before the last memory stick is removed and I cease to be, the least and last thing I feel I can do is pollute the aether just one more time…
If someone gets drunk and attacks someone do you blame the drink and restrict everyone's drinking or do you blame the person for excessive drinking which resulted in the abhorrent change of character? If you speed and hurt or kill someone do you blame the speed or the abhorrent misuse of speed?

There are people out there who want to make a world so sanitized and disinfected that it just isn't worth living here anymore: You can't ride a bicycle without dressing like an American footballer; no more ice skating, no more climbing trees etc. Oh and finally of course, if you love your children don't take them to a park. (had to get that one in).

I'm all for minimizing risk, (I know a thing or two about health and safety). But planting speed cameras everywhere is simply a license to print money - McTruvello. There's one opening near you right now with 24 hour service; after all, you never know if a child is ready to appear from nowhere and jump in front of you outside the school at 4:00 a.m. on a Saturday morning, do you?

I feel a survey coming on: Now let's see - what if it's 3:00 p.m. in the afternoon during a school week: parked cars, children goofing about. Hands up all those who would be doing 20 mph or less? Okay then: 1, 2, 3, - - - 1028, 1029, - - - 4000000, 4000001 - -- Phew! Ok then, I make that most of us!

Then one day, some idiot kills a child going too fast in the wrong place at the wrong time. An arrangement of flowers and a picture graces a nearby tree to graphically show that it isn’t just another statistic, but a real person Another human life needlessly wasted because of some irresponsible fool.

So what happens next: A speed camera is erected and suddenly the vast majority of responsible drivers who are trying to concentrate on the road and less on the speedometer are done for doing a little over the recommended limit. Does this really make sense? Am I missing something? Maybe I am. Maybe I have seen so much doom and gloom I am anesthetized to pain and suffering – NOT.

That fool has made it worse for the rest of us, but I guess that's just how it goes.

Something else that I'm not aware has ever been mentioned: A persons car or motorbike isn't just transport, it is often your pride and joy. Countless hours are spent cleaning, upgrading, maintaining etc. It's a huge interest and conversation point to millions. There's hardly any point keeping something so costly which we can't use so when we have lost our license, what are the ramifications? Apart from even lower moral, inconvenience and hardship, which in itself could lead to 'unconventional behavior', I think it's quite likely that the devil may make work for idle hands – if you know what I mean? Has anyone done research on this I wonder?

By the way, just in case anyone thinks I’m police-bashing, I’m not. I know many police officers who side with us but, as professionals, they have to do the job they are called upon to do.

I am just going outside, and may be some time…


Government beware:
Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.
But when our flagging wits revise we learn to tell some better lies.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.