Safe Speed Forums

I don't think we need to look too deeply into this to see what happened. Pictures aside, there is nothing more sobering that seeing the real thing.

I once met a young girl motorcyclist who was the victim of a head-on crash from another motorcyclist who was gunning it. He died, while this poor inocent girl is left disfigured, partially paralysed and has prosthetic limbs. Of course speed was a factor here! If he had been going slower he wouldn't have drifted onto her side of the road and hit her head-on!

This ostensibly gives credence to Brunstrom's speed camera obsession but what he absolutely misses is that there is a very clear distinction between someone who is using safe speed and someone who uses public roads as a race track and puts themselves and others at risk.

_________________
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Right, the 'unroadworthiness' of the bike was the illegal licenceplate, the 'unlicenced' was your own profession that he was 'unskilled'

Dear chap, your righteous indignation about what you perceive as factual errors has a simple cure; why don't you write more clearly, rather than dancing about your real meaning, or using unnecessarily emotive language.

You have singularly failed to address any points of substance, prefering instead to get red-in-the-face over 'he said, she said' nonsense.

Even in light of the fact that one of his 'Arrive Alive' vans photographed the deceased several hours before his demise, and did nothing to prevent it?

Despite the fact that the rider was on the wrong side of the road in a right-hand turn, and would almost certainly have met an equally fatal (if less gory) end regardless of his speed?

I can't see any way in which this lends any validity whatsoever to Blunderstrom's policies, beyond perhaps his 'mock the police and you'll die' dig at the poor man's t-shirt.

I have not, at any time, said the bike was 'unroadworthy', I have never mentioned licence plates and the lack of a licence itself suggests the simple skill required to pass a test.

It is possible that the deceased, who crossed onto the 'wrong' side of road (while exiting a bend?) at speed was very skilled. But the outcome suggests not.

Don't try and patronise me. I have written very clearly what I intended to say. That you have unable to read it and quote it correctly is not my fault

I have no interest in answering any of your 'points' while you try to continue to misconstrue what I have written.

Ouch! Please believe me when I say I don't subscribe to Blunderstrom's policies or countenance anything that could/shoud have been done by others in this very sad case. For the on-lookers, well myself then, this forum is starting to come across as something of a verbal boxing match between essentially like-minded folk. Not good

_________________
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Everyone please take note... This view is important. Let's try harder to keep it friendly please.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

surely another point to raise, is that the Guy had been caught speeding, which if you believe Brunstrom is a dangerous act, and then later is involved in a high speed accident, now the obvious fact to take from this is that being caught by the camera had no effect, being pulled by a policeman may have had an effect

If i may interject slightly.

This guys attitude was the reason for his downfall, simple as that.
Play with matches with a disregard for what theyre capable of and you risk burning the street down.
Thats not to say he in any way deserved such a nasty method of despatch, and this arguments kind of drifted off track to the degree that the point is being missed.

Brunstrom used the photos of this guy for his own ends to promote "Arrive Deprived" his supposed road "safety" speed camera message, yet that very same day this biker was snapped by one Bumstrumpfers "safety" vans, thereby proving beyond any reasonable doubt the failure of the very "safety" message (and hence policy) he was promoting.

For that reason alone Boomstone should get the bubble, he's a failure, his message is a failure and Arrive "Deprived" is a goddamed failure too.

Thats the real argument.

_________________
"Safety" Scamera Partnerships;
Profitting from death and misery since 1993.

Believe nothing- Question everything.

tbh its nothing to do with speeding at all. His injuries may well have been a consequence and a catalyst, but the cause of the accident was overtaking approaching a hidden dip - might even have been a solid white line.

if you overtake a car and crash into an oncoming vehicle hidden in a dip. it doesn't really matter if you are doing 60mph or 100mph. added to that we have an unlicensed rider - so no CBT or DAS course which might well have saved him from 'assuming' it was clear. He might also have learned about acceleration sense and planning overtakes.

But none of this has anything to do with the case in point.

That is the CC of North Wales, his actions, his motivations, his obsession and his unfitness for office.

The man must go.

We're hearing a lot about the cause or not-cause but as a biker myself, and with all due respect to the car only drivers on this forum, maybe I can put what he was actually riding into some sort of perspective.

I've seen the top speed of his bike quoted but it's how it gets there which is every bit as impressive...

A Suzuki Hyabusa is nothing short of a rocket ship. It would make a Ferrari look like it is standing still. It really is that quick!!! Off the top of my head, the 0-60 mph is about 2.4 seconds and it will break 100 mph in first gear alone in about 5 seconds! At speed, a hill which is hardly perceivable as a hill at all, will feel like you have just been launched into mid air from a ramp! A gentle bend, which is so insignificantly small that it looks just like a road going off into the horizon at 70 mph, with one quick twist of the throttle can feel like you have just hit a hairpin bend on one of these machines. In the wrong hands the outcome shouldn't come as any surprise.

I'm sure other bikers on this forum will agree with me.

_________________
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

The issue here is not about the biker, who it would seem was pretty reckless, although he was at least wearing a helmet, the inertia of which no doubt helped to decapitate him, but it would seem he was a hazard to other road users and needed to be removed from the roads, preferably by some less dramatic means.

The issue is that Mr Blunderstorm was touting photographs of the decapitated corpse, without the necessary permission, in order to justify what would seem to be his megalomaniac obsession for using speed cameras against ordinary drivers and bikers who may moderately exceed a speed limit, when it is perfectly safe to do so, and who are trying to drive as safely and lawfully as they reasonably can.

What this particular case actually proves is just how ineffective speed cameras are at preventing such accidents, given that a few hours before the biker was recorded on a speed camera at some reckless speed, and has probably been recorded on speed cameras many times before, but it would seem the police took no action to stop him.

I don’t know the particulars about the trend in accidents in North Wales, but for all his boasts and claims, I doubt Heir Bluderstorm is achieving any more than any other police force in reducing serious injuries and fatalities.

Quite Dr L, well summarised.

With all the back-biting here, and the righteous indignation giving people with losing arguments an 'out' (I'm not gonna play anymore, I'm taking my ball and going home) we seem to have drifted away from these two key points:

Blunderstrom was wrong to use these photos.

The photos show the ineffectiveness of his camera-centric policy, and highlight how badly it fails the public in road safety terms.

That is all.

North Wales police issued another apology. Safe Speed issued another PR. At 20:38.

PR476: North Wales Police: Good intentions are totally inadequate.

news: for immediate release

The latest development in the ongoing row about 'dead biker' pictures is a new
published statement by North Wales Police.

The statement, rather wishfully, ends with "As police officers, our simple
mission is to preserve life. I hope people will judge us by this intent."

Unfortunately intent is far from sufficient...

Paul Smith, founder of http://www.safespeed.org.uk, said: "So North Wales
Police would liked to be judged for their 'intent'. But intent is far from
sufficient. Perhaps they need to be reminded that the road to hell is paved
with good intentions? On second thoughts, probably not - they seem to know
quite a bit about creating the road to hell for drivers in North Wales."

"What we need from the Police, Mr Wolfendale, is not simply good intent. We
need good judgement too. It is this good judgement that is entirely conspicuous
by its absence, and the restoration of good judgement clearly requires a change
in management."

"Come back from your holiday, Mr Brunstrom, and clear your desk. Give the
public a break from your awful judgement. We've seen it time and time again and
that's more than once too often."

<ends>

Notes for editors
=================

North Wales Police statement:
http://www.north-wales.police.uk/en/new ... asp?ID=914

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Nice one Paul. The point about judgement is extremely cogent.

_________________
I won't slave for beggar's pay,
likewise gold and jewels,
but I would slave to learn the way
to sink your ship of fools

What I can't get hold of, is that even if we had no cameras, this accident still may have occured. There is no guarantee, under any circumstances that there would have been a Police car conveniently located on the road this fellow was riding down.

Clearly, cars have gotten better over the last 20 years but relatively motorcycles haven't. The only person responsible for this accident was the biker. North Wales Police have very little involvement. The person decided to drive without insurance, etc, etc at an inappropriately high speed, not Brunstrom.

What's your point? Are you defending Brunstrom?

I suspect this is a thread de-rail and one I suggest we pick up in the motorcycling thread, but while secondary safety systems for bikes have not improved much. primary safety certainly has.

tyres are better, brakes are much better suspension improved. they are all important primary safety aids. And of course there have been major improvements to rider training over the last 20 years. 20 years ago he'd have been able to ride that bike on L plates with a side winder. today he'd need CBT, theory and DAS. Not to mention a high take up of post test training.

This guy was outside the system - never passed his test so not really a biker. If I buy a plane and try to fly it, it doesn't make me a pilot. He's Just someone who happened to be riding a motorcycle and giving every other motorcyclist a bad name. Its the same as jewlery robbers who use bikes as getaways. they're not armed biker robbers but armed robbers on bikes. theres a difference.

This case is an extreme one, in which a camera could not identify the machine let alone the rider, yet a police car/bike would also have had difficulty in keeping up too.
An air unit might - so we are dealing with a person who might excape justice for some time assuming he only "went off the rails" while off the beaten track.
Given what GOB has said, perhaps we should be looking at least at a register of such high powered machines from the time of their sale, which might deter some from thinking they could remain above the law.

As a matter of interest MP, what prevents a pilot from taking control of a plane for which he is not qualified by training, and performing aerobatics over a busy city - is it simply sensible abstention on the part of the pilot, or are there checks and limitations in place which can prevent it? Or is there a possibility of a maverick jumping in a small plane and flying under Tower Bridge... again?

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

True, but also consider that the "speed kills" policy has replaced cars & cops with cameras. If this was not the case then there is a much higher probability that he would have been spotted & pursued by a car.

Cameras go "flash" <another job well done, lets get the next one>
Cops go "look at that nutter lets stop him before he kills someone"

The camera WAS there, it just did absolutely no good at all

The debate is not really about the accident, it's about a very senior public servant using shock tactics to misrepresent the facts and get his own way whilst stamping all over a familys feelings.

There was absolute outrage when the Saddam video was shown, this is no different, it's not about the victim, it's common decency.

Think of the family, probably just got over it all when this surfaces...

_________________
Wake me up when the revolution starts
STOP the Toll Tax http://www.traveltax.org.uk