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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:22 
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Daily Telegraph

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Parking wardens told to book 100 cars an hour
By Gary Cleland
Last Updated: 2:35am BST 08/05/2007

A council has recommended that its parking attendants hand out at least 840 tickets and 36 clampings a day.

The Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea in London said the private firm that runs its parking enforcement, National Car Parks (NCP), should issue at least 306,000 tickets and clamp 15,000 vehicles a year.

To beat their targets attendants will need to slap tickets on about 100 cars for every hour that the restrictions are in force - more than one ticket every minute.

The revelation has prompted an investigation by the British Parking Association (BPA) and drawn criticism from the RAC Foundation. The BPA has produced a model parking enforcement contract for councils but cannot insist they use it.

It urges councils to measure the efficiency of their parking companies using indicators such as how many tickets are subject to appeal rather than how many are issued.

Edmund King, the executive director of the RAC Foundation, said yesterday that the contract should be made statutory. He said the primary aim of parking enforcement for many councils was no longer to regulate traffic but to make money.

"When parking enforcement was controlled by the police, if they saw someone parking illegally outside a newsagent they would tell them to move on," he said. "Nowadays an attendant is more likely to hide until they see them go into the shop, then hand them a ticket. There is no doubt at all that parking enforcement now is a multi-million-pound business and for some of the larger authorities, like Kensington and Chelsea, it brings in more revenue than probably anything else."

He added: "We need a statutory guideline to regulate that, rather than leaving local authorities to run their own parking regime, picking their own arbitrary figures."

Keith Banbury, the chief executive of the BPA, said: "We have previously received some concerns about the contract introduced by The Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea for parking enforcement and are currently undertaking an investigation."

Tim Cowan, a spokesman for NCP, confirmed the figures in the contract with Kensington and Chelsea but said they were merely a guideline and if they were not met there would be no financial impact on the company.

He said: "If we issue less tickets next year in Kensington and Chelsea it will be because less people are parking illegally and there is no way on Earth we will get fined for that."

A spokesman for the borough told The Guardian the number of tickets and clampings were not the only performance measurements in its contract with NCP. The local authority could not be reached for comment last night.


And they say the motorist isn't being taken for a ride :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 13:44 
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This is what decriminalised parking enforcement is all about. The people who make up the restrictions and inflict them on us even when we don't want them are the same ones who make money from "enforcing" the restrictions.
You should always challenge any PCN. They probably did something wrong.
I believe this is just as bad as the speed camera partnerships when it comes to them lying to us and cheating us and there being no justice available.

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 15:43 
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Ziltro wrote:
You should always challenge any PCN. .


if it's camden, they'll throw your representation in the bin and send the next fine up for non-payment. it's wiser to just pay up straight away unless you've got time to fight it. I'm sure I'd win most of mine in court but it's £50 vs. a day off work= not financially viable, and they know it.

I'm suprised there isn't a service that appeal your tickets on your behalf- I'd pay someone else £60 or £70 to get a ticket canceled rather than pay camdens bloodsucking parasites the £50.

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 15:57 
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But if people just pay up then these people will continue inflicting their restrictions and pain on us.
Think of challenging them as being a fun way to fight back at the evil 'authorities' - playing your part to destroy the system - and then it's more a holiday. :)

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 16:10 
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Ziltro wrote:
But if people just pay up then these people will continue inflicting their restrictions and pain on us.
Think of challenging them as being a fun way to fight back at the evil 'authorities' - playing your part to destroy the system - and then it's more a holiday. :)


I don't have the time. I've worked a lot of hours in the last year, and paid off a lot of debt, and now I need to save up for a new van and then start thinking about a mortgage deposit. Jumping through hoops and deadlines, taking time off work and the mental headaches demanded by camden would detract from this. To me its legalised exhortion, and any smart business pays their protection racket money and continues trading.

I'll just stick to trying to find the level at which they take you to court for verbal abuse to a revenue agent- but god knows i've tried.

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 09:12 
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Ziltro wrote:
This is what decriminalised parking enforcement is all about. The people who make up the restrictions and inflict them on us even when we don't want them are the same ones who make money from "enforcing" the restrictions.


See my 'Cumbria' thread . . .

FWIW, I paid the £30 disounted 'offer' price.

Didn't have many cheques left in the cheque book, so only made it 5 x £6 :)

If you expect - as hairyben seems to - to get the occasional ticket, keep a spare cheque book handy. If they start having to process 50 x £1 cheques for every fine then the system will slow.

AAMOI, do Councils have to pay fees per cheque, like 'business' bank accounts?


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 13:23 
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The only 'good' thing about decriminalised parking enforcement is that THEY have to be perfect!
The Penalty Charge Notice must be correctly worded (a lot weren't, quite a few still aren't). For example, if it states that "you" have to pay then it's invalid. The Notice to Owner and letter of rejection also have to be worded correctly. You will always get a letter of rejection so don't ever expect your first challenge to be successful.
The lines must be correct. Not nearly correct, the rules already have tolerances built in. They have to be perfect. The signs also have to be perfect and they must not be confusing.

Given all of this, the chances are you owe them nothing.

I have heard of a case where someone got a PCN from Poole council and not only did they not have to pay it, they took the council to court and ended up getting money out of them! (I think it was a 'secret' out of court settlement though)

Oh look, a petition! http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ParkingWardens/

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 14:36 
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OT ? - .
And ,perhaps i missed it on the earlier petitions , but could this note have been sneaked in so as to provide a get out --

The e-petitions system launched in November 2006. It is currently in a public "beta test". This means that users are welcome to sign and create petitions, but we will be making changes to the site, as we fix technical problems, improve usability and respond to feedback.

(Technical problems , like finding out that we were wrong ABOUT THE WAY THE PUBLIC FEELS)
:roll: :roll:

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 18:08 
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Ziltro wrote:
The signs also have to be perfect and they must not be confusing.


Any more detail on that, please? Because . . .

http://www.nwemail.co.uk/news/viewartic ... ?id=488110

Motorists stung by tickets
Published on 16/04/2007

VISITORS to the Lake District have been warned about parking illegally after 105 tickets were issued over the Easter bank holiday weekend in one car park.

The drivers were stung at Lakeside Car Park near Derwentwater — 84 of them for parking outside the marked bays when the car park reached capacity.

An Allerdale council spokeswoman said . . . “We are looking at improving signage for the car park.”

“We don’t allow parking on the grass because of the costly damage it causes to the kerbs.


Damage the kerbs? Don't you build roads properly up there? ;) What absolute tosh . . .


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 18:57 
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how can the wardens in Chelsea possibly achieve 100 tickets a day, i would imagine that once the parking bays are full of residents and the like finding a parking space is like winning the lottery, or do they run a limited stay system

Quote:
Horse

The drivers were stung at Lakeside Car Park near Derwentwater — 84 of them for parking outside the marked bays when the car park reached capacity.

An Allerdale council spokeswoman said . . . “We are looking at improving signage for the car park.”

“We don’t allow parking on the grass because of the costly damage it causes to the kerbs.

Damage the kerbs? Don't you build roads properly up there? Wink What absolute tosh . . .


i thought that parking on a grass area and not the public highway was a police reportable offence


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 19:11 
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Council run off-road car parks are a different affair.
For "not parked wholly within marked bays" you must ask to see the diagram for the car park, this should have the bays marked on it. If it does not then there are no bays and you can park anywhere.

And I'm sure there's more to it than that! :)

There's much more info on the PePiPoo Parking Tickets forum.

And you might notice how the restrictions designed for weekday activities (business/school/etc.) often include bank holidays. Strange that.

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 19:43 
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toonbarmy wrote:
how can the wardens in Chelsea possibly achieve 100 tickets a day

They probably end up putting them on vehicles which aren't quite 'breaking' the council's rules, like a few minutes before a pay & display ticket ran out, knowing that a lot of people will be too scared to challenge it.

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 20:54 
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Excuse my ignorance folks, but I’m a bit confused about all this decriminalised parking enforcement thingy and the disbanding of Traffic Wardens. Who enforces yellow line and other ‘on-road’ parking infringements? Is that now done by private companies working for the council?

I ask because recently I was chatting to a policeman who was breathalysing my wife (a completely ridiculous experience which is another story). I pointed out a car behind ours which was parked at 45 deg to the road with one wheel up on the pavement and with its ass end sticking out into the traffic.

His words (almost exactly) were “Nothin’ to do with us, mate!”

Can this be right and does that imply the council is responsible now?

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 21:18 
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ItHIS GIVES AN EXPLANATION

And all the more interesting because this is the Warks site - and just recently due to them giving up on proper Traffic Wardens and failing to get decriminalisation locally - our council has had to go cap in hand to the County and the police to re-employ a traffic warden.

And in the light of the origonal text " Parking wardens told to book 100 cars an hour " - in those parts of Warks where "Parking Attendants" are used we see a rebuff about making money

"It is often a common misconception that schemes such as DPE are a means of making money for the Local Authority and that parking attendants work to targets. This is not true. The scheme is self-financing, PAs do not work to targets and any surplus money gained is put back into the road system( how - less potholes ??--i think not) and making it safer and more suitable for everyone. "

Doesen't this sort of rhetoric seem familiar ?? :oops:

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 21:31 
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I believe the police can do something about illegally or dangerously parked vehicles.

But it is getting more and more common for the councils to operate decriminalised parking enforcement whereby the council send out their own "parking attendants" (although "parking vultures" is more apt) to attach Penalty Charge Notices to vehicles in the area.
These are a demand for payment with a threat that if payment isn't received within (I think) 14 days the amount will double.

They want us to believe that this is not a fine, and therefore the Bill of Rights (everyone can have a trial before getting fined) does not apply.

If you want to object then you don't get to go to court, you go to "independent adjudication" which is run by people who allegedly make money from payment of PCNs.

The council as you know are the people who create the parking problems.
For example, they erect horrible blocks of flats even though there aren't enough parking spaces for them.
They impose parking restrictions all over the place, in some cases even when the people have said "no we don't want this".

The council make money from the payment of PCNs.

Some councils have been known to get other companies in to to the enforcement, like NCP, who have been known to falsify evidence. Yes, companies, who care about nothing but profit.

This does not help the visitors. This does not help the residents. This does not help the shops.
This makes everyone's lives hell, creates a whole load of waste (lines & signs, they cost a lot and use a lot of energy to create) and distraction for drivers. This causes frustration and causes people to have to rush what they are doing to get back to the car because they are living in fear of getting caught by the vultures.
It also causes congestion as people drive round and round looking for (another) parking place.

But it makes money for the council.

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 21:54 
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This seems obscene. So now, if I’ve understood this correctly, civilians (councillors) can contrive to use parliamentary law to extract money for their own use. They just paint yellow lines wherever they want, and the law backs them up.

This is nearly as obscene as having complete discretion on speed limits. Councillors pick any limit at random, and the law of the land backs them up without question.

Parlimentary law is just a puppet of civilians - how weird is that?

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 22:14 
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Grumpy Old Biker wrote:
Parlimentary law is just a puppet of civilians - how weird is that?


And from all that -are the councillors pulling the strings -or having theirs pulled by the council officers ??

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 00:23 
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Grumpy Old Biker wrote:
They just paint yellow lines wherever they want, and the law backs them up.

Not quite, they have to put up yellow posters, wait for the people to send in any letters of support/objection then ignore them all and do it anyway.

The Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (which the yellow A4 posters around here refer to) appears to basically state that the local authority has to be satisfied that the restrictions they want to impost are for the good of the people. They don't actually have to be any good, just that the LA thinks they are.

The latest parking restriction here is around a school to fully restrict the road during school start and end time (note that it includes bank holidays and school holidays of course).
A few people said "yes, let's have the double yellow lines near the junctions" but it seems that most people didn't want the single yellow lines which cover most of one side of the road.
The school even gave the council a presentation on why this would be a bad idea.

Then they had a Transport Action Group meeting to decide, the date and time of which got changed and I was notified 5 days beforehand. It changed from 7PM to 9:30AM.

The report from this meeting included a brief list of every objection/support but didn't include my objection.

In fact, here's an extract from the report:
Poole Transport Action Group wrote:
Summary of Proposals
(i)Impose No Waiting at any time restrictions at the junctions with Kingsbere Road, Harbour Hill Road and Gorse Hill Road.
(ii)Enlarge the existing coach bay
(iii)Impose no waiting 8am-10am and 2pm-4pm Mon-Fri restriction along the northwestern side of Pound Lane

Purpose of Proposals
To improve safety, to allow the School coaches to wait closer to the end of the path across the common and to get to the coach bay when there is a space available.

Objections and Support
The Governors of St Mary’s Combined School have written to object to the single yellow lines ( they support the double yellow lines at the junctions and the larger coach bay). They feel that the problems are only of a short duration and point out that the school has a particularly large catchment area. They also make reference to the difficulties that their staff have parking at the school.
Objections have been received from 10 parents of children at the school. They feel that the restrictions are not necessary to deal with a short term problem, will lead to higher speeds and displace parking elsewhere. Two of the objectors have supported the yellow lines at the junctions and the larger coach bay.
A resident of Gorse Hill Road has written to support the double yellow lines at the junctions and to urge stronger enforcement of the existing restrictions around the school, but to object to the proposed single yellow lines as they will displace the parking elsewhere.
A resident of Pound Lane has written to request that the proposals be extended to apply between Kingsbere Road and Winifred Road.

Conclusion
The proposals have been put forward to manage the congestion at school times, discourage parents from parking so that their children have to cross Pound Lane to get to their cars and allow coaches to get along the road to reach the coach stands when a space becomes free.
It appears that there is some support for the double yellow lines at the junctions and the larger coach stands, it is the single yellow lines along the north-eastern side of the road that appear to have prompted the objections.

Recommendation
Make Order as Advertised


Note also that a "coach bay" is not, as far as I can tell, a legally enforceable entity. :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 00:27 
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Also I asked how I could be informed on new restriction proposals and part of the reply was:
Poole Council wrote:
We do have a mailing list to inform approximately 60 bodies which includes Residents' Associations, Cycling Groups and Pedestrian Groups. The Emergency Services, Bus Companies and all Ward Members are also informed.


So nobody who the restrictions will affect then. :roll:

Guess who I voted against last week. No good did it do unfortunately. :(

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 09:41 
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toonbarmy wrote:
i thought that parking on a grass area and not the public highway was a police reportable offence


This is where it gets ridiculous. I parked where I did because that section of the car park's access road system didn't have any yellow line markings - while other parts did - and ensured I wasn't causing any obstruction to other vehicles, either moving in and out of bays or travelling around the car park.


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