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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 09:47 
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http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transp ... 536880.ece

Quote:
Drivers may be banned from smoking at the wheel
By Marie Woolf, Political Editor
Published: 13 May 2007

A smoking ban for drivers is to be considered by the Department of Health in a bid to cut the number of deaths from crashes.

Road safety officers from councils around the country are to meet transport officials to discuss a ban on smoking while at the wheel. A similar ban on using a mobile phone while driving is already in place.

The Local Authority Road Safety Officers' Association, which represents 180 of the UK's 200 local roads authorities, fears that more people will smoke while driving home from the pub once a smoking ban on public places comes into force on 1 July.

According to The Observer, road safety campaigners believe drivers are in danger of crashing when they take their hands off the wheel to light cigarettes; they are also at risk of an accident if ash or a lit cigarette falls on them.

Strikes me this has more to do with waging war on smoking than road safety.

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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 10:08 
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Here's the original:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/ ... 00,00.html

Quote:
Now drivers face ban on smoking at the wheel

Juliette Jowit and Denis Campbell

Britain's senior road safety campaigners are calling for a ban on smoking while driving, in an attempt to cut the number of crashes.

The Department of Health said last night that it would seriously consider a ban, which is also being looked at in Germany, Australia and America. The move was backed by anti-smoking campaigners but drew criticism from others as an attack on personal freedom. From 1 July, England will join the rest of the UK by introducing a ban on smoking in enclosed public places and at work.

The Local Authority Road Safety Officers' Association, which represents councils - responsible for the majority of Britain's roads - will meet transport officials within weeks to ask them to pass a ban on smoking at the wheel.

The association claims that drivers are in danger when they take their hands off the wheel to find, light and smoke cigarettes, and are particularly at risk if a lit cigarette or ash falls in the car or is blown back through the window. The organisation, which represents 180 of Britain's 200 local roads authorities, fears that once people who drive are stopped from lighting up in other places from 1 July, they will smoke more while in their own cars.

'Driving is a complicated business, especially with the high volume of traffic motorists have to contend with these days. It's not an area where you can multi-task,' said Simon Ettinghausen, a spokesman for the association. He said the existing law banning the use of hand-held mobile phones in cars showed special bans were more effective than general road-safety legislation.

'In this country, we're libertarians, we like to give people freedoms, but if you are distracted unfortunately your freedom to do these things can affect other people's lives,' he added. Last year there were 3,201 deaths on Britain's roads.

The Department of Health said it was 'looking at how we can get further momentum towards smoking cessation beyond the introduction of the smoking ban in England'.

'We are looking at further proposals and this could be one of them. If the road safety officers put information and evidence before us about this, and explain the case for it, we would study it,' said a spokeswoman.

Amanda Sandford of the campaign group Action on Smoking and Health said: 'We fully support this proposal. Not so long ago it would have seemed inconceivable that we would have a total ban on smoking across the country, but in a few years time people will think it's inconceivable that we allow people to continue to smoke while driving.'

Andrew Lansley, the Conservative shadow Health Secretary, condemned the plan as a denial of citizens' rights to decide how they behave in their own personal space. 'Parliament hasn't accepted the completely anti-libertarian view that people can't do what they like in their own homes and own cars,' he said.


Road safety by whim again. Give me strength.

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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 10:44 
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Safe Speed issued the following PR at 10:40am today:

PR481: Smoking ban at the wheel. LARSOA 'playing with fire'.

news: for immediate release

The Observer today reports that officials will consider a ban on drivers
smoking proposed by the Local Authority Road Safety Officers Association
(LARSOA).

Safe Speed says:

* The risk of smoking at the wheel is purely theoretical. It is not a known
cause of a significant number of crashes.

* Road safety resources are finite. Enforcing a smoking ban against drivers
will take resources away from real road risks.

* Preventing drivers from smoking will alter their mental state and is likely
to lead to an increased crash risk.

* LARSOA should know far better than this. They are playing with fire.

* We need EVIDENCE BASED road safety policies targeting resources at real
causes of danger.

Paul Smith, founder of http://www.safespeed.org.uk, said: "I'm amazed that the
Local Authority Road Safety Officers' Association (LARSOA) should propose such
a thing - it shows the tragic state of road safety in the UK. Smoking at the
wheel isn't a known cause of crashes - the risk is purely theoretical. The
problem with chasing theoretical risks is that life saving resources are taken
away from real causes of risk."

"One thing's for sure - while a Police officer is giving you a ticket for
smoking at the wheel, he's not catching drunk drivers or stolen cars."

"We would also need to consider the new crash risks that a ban on smoking at
the wheel might bring. Smokers can feel agitated or anxious when they need a
cigarette and the last thing we need is more agitated or anxious drivers."

"All things considered a ban on drivers smoking is highly likely to increase
road risks and I'm disgusted that LARSOA don't know better. They are playing
with fire.

<ends>

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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 10:46 
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I don't smoke - tried it as you do when a lad :wink: - behind the bike sheds at school :wink:


Have to say I cannot think of any "incident" or even accident which I attended in the past .. nor can I recall any report of the drivers involved smoking a cigarette being recorded as a contributrary cause of an accident or incident.

Also :scratchchin: how on earth would you enforce it - short of placing a "bug" in the car to cop folk "at it" :roll:?


:yikes: Think of all that paperwork "processing these "hardened ol' fags""


We already have our work cut out "copping real criminals" anyway :wink:

By all means - discourage smoking by continuing to educate over the dangers of getting hooked on fags in the first place .. and continue to help those who want to give this habit, save their money and enjoy really tasting their food and drink again - but bringing in daft unenforceable laws on what comes across to the public at large as a control freakish whim will just drive even greater chasms between this public at large, its police and its politicians. On the other hand - it could run some danger of political apathy replaced by deep, uncontrollable fury fuelled by outrage at over-interference in private lives.

Sure - sticking a fag in the ciggy lighter and then picking it up and placing in mouth requires taking the hand off the wheel - but - as a non-smoker whose pals do not smoke in car when I am present in that car ('elf and safety in the work place :wink:), I suspect this duration is no longer than changing a gear. Ash dropping down.. if driver is wearing shorts then .. perhaps. But they usually have the ash tray close by - and I suppose a seasoned smoker is quite adept at handling his fags.

I honestly do not think this is enforceable - especially given the number of serving police officers who smoke. We do operate a "smoke free working environment" - but not one officer could swear on a "bible" court oath that no officer smokes whilst on duty in a patrol car :roll:

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Last edited by In Gear on Sun May 13, 2007 11:00, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 10:47 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
'Driving is a complicated business, especially with the high volume of traffic motorists have to contend with these days. It's not an area where you can multi-task,' said Simon Ettinghausen.


How the hell does he think we drive if it's not multi-tasking???

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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 11:26 
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If they really were so concerned at smoking, as they imply by all the attempts to ban it in various places, why dont they just make cigarettes illegal, like cocaine, heroin, amphetamines etc., etc.?

That would stop people from smoking and make the world a better healthier place!!! NOT.

Could it be that the tax it generates is just too good to pass up? :oops:

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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 11:32 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
Could it be that the tax it generates is just too good to pass up? :oops:


I'd say that's about the crux of it Ernest, not to mention the amount of money they will add to that tax with the money they rake in with fines.

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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 11:45 
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This ones been going on a long time, I remember reading years ago about a survey that showed smokers were less likely to crash- put down to the nicotine making them more alert outweighing the crash risk of handling a cigarette in addition to driving.

i'd like to see the proof that smokers are more likely to crash but i would guess yet again it's all pure conjecture by the simple goo-goo minded nannies telling baby whats best for it yet again.

regardless, if it is banned i would expect a surge in accidents at least initially- as somokers climb into their cars in the morning all bleary eyed and aren't allowed their fix.

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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 12:31 
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Holy f'ing s't, they're at it again!

[Insert replay of eating at the wheel argument here]

Are we really this blind? Are we (as a society) going to sit by and let them take our liberty in a thousand cuts? You're damned right we are, and then we're gonna thank them for taking such good care of us, whilst we suckle at the tit of the bloated Fabian nanny-state!

What next people? Form a queue to the left to have your v-chip cranially implanted.


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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 12:40 
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RobinXe wrote:
Holy f'ing s't, they're at it again!

[Insert replay of eating at the wheel argument here]

Are we really this blind? Are we (as a society) going to sit by and let them take our liberty in a thousand cuts? You're damned right we are, and then we're gonna thank them for taking such good care of us, whilst we suckle at the tit of the bloated Fabian nanny-state!

What next people? Form a queue to the left to have your v-chip cranially implanted.


isn't this what most people want through? step-by step instructions on how to live? contrast it to the stupid bint that parked her heap on a railway line- these people want everything spelt out in simple terms and prefably sponge-coated. they can't handle freedom/independant thought. half the smokers i speak to are supportive of the july smoking ban because "it'll help me to give up" The facist nature of it dosn't bother them at all.

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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 13:18 
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RobinXe wrote:
Holy f'ing s't, they're at it again!

[Insert replay of eating at the wheel argument here]

Are we really this blind? Are we (as a society) going to sit by and let them take our liberty in a thousand cuts? You're damned right we are, and then we're gonna thank them for taking such good care of us, whilst we suckle at the tit of the bloated Fabian nanny-state!

What next people? Form a queue to the left to have your v-chip cranially implanted.

RobinXe, this for me is absolutely IT, the most important point for all of us, both as individuals and also as a society. This note rings oh so true, and you have eloquently expressed the frightening warning that all should heed. As you say "a thousand cuts". How far down the line to losing something so valuable are we already. A terrifying thought.

Freedom IS important.

"I am not a number — I am a free man!"


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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 15:12 
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supertramp wrote:
RobinXe wrote:
Holy f'ing s't, they're at it again!

[Insert replay of eating at the wheel argument here]

Are we really this blind? Are we (as a society) going to sit by and let them take our liberty in a thousand cuts? You're damned right we are, and then we're gonna thank them for taking such good care of us, whilst we suckle at the tit of the bloated Fabian nanny-state!

What next people? Form a queue to the left to have your v-chip cranially implanted.

RobinXe, this for me is absolutely IT, the most important point for all of us, both as individuals and also as a society. This note rings oh so true, and you have eloquently expressed the frightening warning that all should heed. As you say "a thousand cuts". How far down the line to losing something so valuable are we already. A terrifying thought.

Freedom IS important.

"I am not a number — I am a free man!"


Yeah. This 'death of (freedom by) a thousand cuts' scares me to death as well.

But the population is apathetic, or something. By the time they wake up it will be too late. We're doing a good job fighting our little corner, but there are precious few groups doing anything at all...

I'm starting to think that emigration is the only option. :yikes:

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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 15:20 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
I'm starting to think that emigration is the only option. :yikes:


And I don't blame you for thinking this way, your energy is wasted in the UK.

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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 15:29 
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Dixie wrote:
... your energy is wasted in the UK.


I hope not. In a very real way I'm working to save the land I loved. And I am winning - inch by inch.

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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 16:00 
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Hands free 'hookah' anyone, designed to compliment the bluetooth ear piece.

fatboytim


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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 17:30 
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Outgroup hostility seems to be hard wired into people. I reckon if you make any proposal that hurts of infringes on a particular group, about 70% of people from outside that group will support it.


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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 17:36 
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Zamzara wrote:
Outgroup hostility seems to be hard wired into people. I reckon if you make any proposal that hurts of infringes on a particular group, about 70% of people from outside that group will support it.


so true, also known as "I'm alright Jack" which aids "Divide and conquer"

You see it in every walk of life.

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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 17:54 
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Zamzara wrote:
Outgroup hostility seems to be hard wired into people. I reckon if you make any proposal that hurts of infringes on a particular group, about 70% of people from outside that group will support it.


Yeah. Tribal instinct. So now we're not allowed to discriminate on the basis of race we invent groups to discriminate against.

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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 18:13 
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Considering how well the mobile phone ban was worked (*cough*), I'm sure this would be equally successful.

That is, until they can invent a heat-seeking camera to dole out the prosecutions for them.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 00:30 
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orange wrote:
Considering how well the mobile phone ban was worked (*cough*), I'm sure this would be equally successful.

That is, until they can invent a heat-seeking camera to dole out the prosecutions for them.

All they need do is pull over your car whether you are smoking or not, sniff the air withan electronic sniffer, and you'd get failed on your emmissions! :oops:

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