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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 09:45 
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(2) Any person who without reasonable cause fails to give to an authorised officer of an enforcement authority, acting in the exercise of his functions under or by virtue of this Chapter, any facilities, assistance or information which the authorised officer reasonably requires of him for the performance of those functions commits an offence.
................


So I am walking across the yard at work and a council official spotted someone smoking in a work building and picks on me to find out who was smoking at threat of £1000 fine.

It might have been me! this is where the idris francis ruling might be interesting. I can not tell you as I might self incriminate myself!

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“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:23 
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We should soon find out how the law works

Thats Rock and Roll

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Slash escapes fine as CIA blamed for flouting smoking rulesJun 25 2007

SMOKING strummer Slash is set to escape a £50 fine for lighting up on stage in Cardiff.

The former Guns n’ Roses guitarist was spotted puffing at the Cardiff International Arena during a gig with his new group Velvet Revolver.

But city cigarette ban chiefs said the arena was to blame – and are not planning to try to force the Los Angeles resident, whose real name is Saul Hudson, to pay the fine for smoking in a public place.

A spokeswoman for the council said: “The primary responsibility lies with the business to prevent smoking from taking place in the venue.”

Local authority smoking officers have now demanded the CIA put into writing how it plans to stop performers smoking on stage in future.



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 17:59 
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Gizmo wrote:
We should soon find out how the law works

Thats Rock and Roll

Slash

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Slash escapes fine as CIA blamed for flouting smoking rulesJun 25 2007

SMOKING strummer Slash is set to escape a £50 fine for lighting up on stage in Cardiff.

The former Guns n’ Roses guitarist was spotted puffing at the Cardiff International Arena during a gig with his new group Velvet Revolver.

But city cigarette ban chiefs said the arena was to blame – and are not planning to try to force the Los Angeles resident, whose real name is Saul Hudson, to pay the fine for smoking in a public place.

A spokeswoman for the council said: “The primary responsibility lies with the business to prevent smoking from taking place in the venue.”

Local authority smoking officers have now demanded the CIA put into writing how it plans to stop performers smoking on stage in future.



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I've pondered this myself & was waiting for it to happen, I guess the venues will just have to fork out a few grand each and every time rather than try to upset £100,000-a-night superstars so it's just another stealth tax.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 18:08 
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Is it me. or do we seem to be becoming a petty minded country?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 18:12 
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ree.t wrote:
Is it me. or do we seem to be becoming a petty minded country?


Think the phrase you are looking for is "police state"...

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 18:30 
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hairyben wrote:
ree.t wrote:
Is it me. or do we seem to be becoming a petty minded country?


Think the phrase you are looking for is "police state"...



AHH - But only where there's money to be made - try getting a council official to enforce the dog crapping laws, where the dog is loose (and even when they've got a photo of said dog) or get someone out to deal with noise pollution out of hours - no money there , because (i suspect) that they know that the offender can't pay .
In the days of police policing noise ( forgive the pun or whatever) a police vehicle stopping close by automatically saw a reduction on the "music" level .
NOW ??????
And as for dog crapping - PCSO's were supossed to be able to deal with this - but now - i think they've adopted the local bus timetable - appear on even dates where free do nuts are being handed out at the St Johns hut - i.e never. :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 18:39 
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hairyben wrote:
ree.t wrote:
Is it me. or do we seem to be becoming a petty minded country?


Think the phrase you are looking for is "police state"...


Maybe thats why we are becoming law breakers......

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6238090.stm
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The report authors Susanne Karstedt and Stephen Farrall concluded crime does not belong to the margins of society and there is no "law-abiding majority". The respectable middle classes, they say, are a "seething mass of morally dubious, and outright criminal, behaviour".


Bugger!

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 23:43 
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On a related issue, I am informed that under the new legislation every public premises must display a No Smoking sign at each entrance or face a £200 spot fine.

Can anyone point me at the legislation that defines what constitutes a No Smoking sign, as I guess will need to have one on the door of my shop by Monday.

This sounds a bit daft, but I have this theory that prescriptive notices are basically a bad thing for a business to have about the place. I think having prominent signs saying things like "No Smoking", "No Dogs", "No Children" etc give the place an oppressive feel at a subconscious level. In keeping with this belief I've made a point of having no such signs anywhere in my shop so far, but this stupid new law apparently now forces me to do so, despite the fact that at a stroke it also makes the same notices completely self evident and therefore pointless!

So can I write a small polite notice saying "No Smoking Please" in order to try and keep with the friendly and welcoming feel I've been striving for elsewhere in my shop, or is the format and wording dictated by the legislation?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 00:06 
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I haven't found it in law yet but this web site shows them as being great ugly things.

Ick.

And oh look, there is a link to somewhere where you can BUY them. :x

Waste... of... resources...?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 00:18 
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The main law seems to be Smoke-free (Premises and Enforcement) Regulations 2006

But the signage seems to be The Smoke-free (Signs) Regulations 2007

And the important part from that is:

Quote:
(3) In these Regulations—

"A5 size" means an area of any shape which is equal in area to the size A5 in the A series of paper sizes defined in BS EN ISO 216: 200;

"the Act" means the Health Act 2006;

"entrance" means an entrance for use by persons;

"no-smoking symbol" means a symbol which consists solely of a graphic representation of a single burning cigarette enclosed in a red circle of at least 70 millimetres in diameter with a red bar across it;

"smoke-free premises" means all public places and workplaces which are smoke-free by virtue of section 2 or 4 of the Act, other than those that are exempt by virtue of regulations made under section 3 of the Act; and

"smoke-free vehicle" means a vehicle which is smoke-free by virtue of section 5 of the Act.

No-smoking signs in premises
2. —(1) Except where paragraphs (3) and (4) apply, at each entrance to smoke-free premises there shall be displayed in a prominent position at least one no-smoking sign which—

(a) is at least A5 size;

(b) displays the no-smoking symbol; and

(c) contains, in characters that can be easily read by persons using the entrance, the words—

" No smoking. It is against the law to smoke in these premises".

(2) For the words required by sub-paragraph (c) of paragraph (1) there may be substituted words which differ only in that for "these premises" there are substituted words which refer to the particular smoke-free premises in which a sign is displayed (such as "this hotel").

(3) This paragraph applies to an entrance which is—

(a) an entrance to smoke-free premises from other smoke-free premises; or

(b) an entrance solely for persons to their place of work where that place is in premises which have another entrance at which there is displayed in a prominent position a sign which complies with paragraphs (1) and (2).

(4) Where paragraph (3) applies, a no-smoking sign which displays only the no-smoking symbol may be displayed in a prominent position at the entrance instead of a no-smoking sign which complies with paragraphs (1) and (2).


Still ugly.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 00:29 
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Ziltro wrote:
I haven't found it in law yet but this web site shows them as being great ugly things.

Ick.

And oh look, there is a link to somewhere where you can BUY them. :x

Oh yes, and isn't it strange how this Government site hasn't taken the "obvious" helpful approach of providing downloadable images for you to print yourself, but instead gives tiny low resolution thumbnails that link you to commercial sites charging a tenner for them instead....

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 00:36 
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Ok, for a quick competition, let's see who can come up with the monst tactful surrounding text for my sign which will "contain" the prescribed wording, for example...

"We would be grateful if you would abide by our beloved Governments repressive insistence on a policy of No Smoking. It is against the law to smoke in this otherwise gloriously uninhibited emporium"

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 22:10 
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No Anything in Here:-
No Smoking, Drinking, Eating, Spitting, Laughing, Shouting, Talking, Leering, Mooning, Sh!tting, P!ssing, Farting, Picking your Nose, Picking your Arse, Popping Wedgies, Popping Pills, Littering, Loitering, Thinking Naughty Thoughts, Doing Naughty Things, Thinking or Doing Anything...
'Cos This is Britain and We Are Nu Labia. We're All Out Of Carrots, But We've Just Opened A New Box Of Sticks.

(Nu Labia is an Equal Opportunities Employer - our Councils, Nationally, employ the same sort of numpty-fuckwit Jobsworth to ensure that your yesterday was as crap as your tomorrow will be.
Have a Nice Day :-)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 23:23 
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JT wrote:
On a related issue, I am informed that under the new legislation every public premises must display a No Smoking sign at each entrance or face a £200 spot fine.


Including churches and cathedrals


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 23:35 
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patdavies wrote:
JT wrote:
On a related issue, I am informed that under the new legislation every public premises must display a No Smoking sign at each entrance or face a £200 spot fine.


Including churches and cathedrals

Including posh places which won't want such an ugly sign. And, possibly, our office, which doesn't want to appear to be an office.

Fines all around.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:09 
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(2) The place, or places falling within the description, need not be enclosed or substantially enclosed.


I am going to Guilfest in a couple of weeks. by any standard, despite being open air, the venue is most definitly "Enclosed" (it is after all, surrounded by a security fence, as indeed it the camping area!)

ISTM that the wording of the quoted legislation posted by the OP is "specifically intended" to cover circumstances such as this. I wonder if they will try it on?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:03 
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I overheard a conversation (verging on an argument) between managers yesterday, the gist of it was about having the placing of 'no smoking' signs in their company cars forced upon them :banghead:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 21:55 
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its costing our company a packet

take friday for example, I took the transit from ashby to brum via the M42/A42 and was stopping on the hard shoulder every few miles for a fag (an Emergency to me as a fix needing Nicotine addict), this added lots of time to my journy, but as we cannot smoke in company vehicles......ah well :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 01:01 
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JT wrote:
Oh yes, and isn't it strange how this Government site hasn't taken the "obvious" helpful approach of providing downloadable images for you to print yourself, but instead gives tiny low resolution thumbnails that link you to commercial sites charging a tenner for them instead....


On the SMOKEFREE site they give you printable signs, if you look.

As for it being a "British" thing, loads of countries are passing their own laws, some stricter than the English version.

Oh, and it's not a "police" thing either, just local council.

It will be interesting at work on Monday. The employers [required] smokefree policy states: "three verbal warnings will be issued followed by a last written warning then dismissal" (which is wrong, since the employment laws have a different procedure which has to be followed now)
Not to worry, it also states "No smoking in all company vehicles" (which includes forklifts) (unenclosed on all four sides)
You see, the employers safety policy can include no smoking on the premises anyway, irrespective of the law.
And no smoking shelter is going to be provided, and no smoking within 3 metres of any door or window.
And no smoking on any clients property.


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 Post subject: smoking ban
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 23:50 
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I'm sure I heard today on TV or radio that a local council is banning smoking in its parks under this legislation due to the fact that there may be children nearby.


Definitely a petty minded state, police state and generally f****d up country.

Every policy brought out is taken to the nth degree to ensure that life is as difficult as possible for us. ie, cig end on floor £75 fine, litter on floor £75 fine, speeding 36mph £60 + 3yrs endorsment not removed for 4, wrong rubbish in bin-fined, letter addressed to house put in street bin- fined, kids chalk on pavement - fine (eventually withdrawn. All petty offences punished to the limit.

Mugging, caution or suspended sentence because the poor soul had a difficult upbringing, roober usually not caught or police turn up hours later, property damage we just get given a crime number.

Just noticing something here if there is a reward for the authorities then punished to the hilt, no reward mens then don't pursue unless culprit already apprehended.

Mind you they love getting the copter out at what £100 minute operational cost.

Regards


Disillusioned, if only I was young enough to leave this country.


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