Safe Speed Forums

I was allegedly doing 79 in a 40 anc caught with pro laser 2 at 962m. There is no way i was speeding and the distance of 962m (almost 1km) means that the gun must have been able to see round corners.
At the time i was stopped cautioned given a verbal NIP and signed a piece of paper can't remember what, that had the details of the offence.
I have got a summons for court and need some advice.

Has anyone got any idea what the max range of a pro-laser 2 is?

What was the piece of paper i signed (I was shocked at the time so was not paying much attention) and can i get a copy of it as I am sure it said 962m
What calibration checks are required for the pro-laser 2?

Thanks

The speed you say that you were caught at would suggest that you would have been dealt with by way of summons, and that you more than likely signed a HO/RT/1 for the production of your documents.

Now, for the Pro laser 2 I am no expert in I am however fairly competant in the daily usage of the Lti 20 / 20 which is the same principal of operation and guidelines.

So,as for the distance of 962m well thats a fu***ng long distance to check a vehicle let alone see the fu***r . The CPS guidelines for a safe prosecution is recommended not to target vehicles over 300m in distance from the officer.

It also states that you should strike the number plate in order to emmit any errors being fed back through the machine. Now I would hope that you have made a mistake in the distance, if not then I would suggest if you plead not guilty, it would be withdrawn by CPS for the above reasons.

I sit here typing and trying to recall the longest distance that I have tried to get a vehicle from and I would say it was only at most 400 to 500m and that was struggling and I have got very good eyesight, but I would never dream of prosecuting off those distances,mainly as a trial to see how good i am at locking onto the vehicle, after all as it has been said how can you truthfully say that you formed the opinion from that distance.

I have however done a check way off and used the check to see if it is going to be over or under the limit.

If you want my opinion and it is only based on what you have wrote then if you challenge it , i feel that you have a good chance of getting the result you want, but it all depends on the CPS guidelines if they are the same all over the country which I have no reason to doubt that they are.

So, good luck and keep us posted on the outcome it would be interesting to find out if it proceeds or grinds to a sharp halt.
Stephen

I have been informed that it is easier to get a reading using a Pro Laser than an LTI. This suggests to me that the window for slip error is also greater (less likely to get an error reading). Unfortunately I don't have much on the Pro Laser. As Stephen says it's more or les the same as the well-known LTI2020, so I imagine the same alignment checks have to be done.

nsync, did you see an accompanying video recorder?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

I've relocated this to HIABP from SSITN. I left a trailer in the original place so the OP can easily find his way back.

I'm in a similar position there, I was 'caught' doing 101 in a 60 at a distance of 400m from a stationary unmarked traffic car on the opposite side of the road overtaking two cars on my motorcycle. The device they used was a Kustom ProLaser III. It was literally less than a second that it took to get past the cars, and was straight back to the speed limit before i'd even seen the traffic car and the officers inside scrabbling to get the car started and proceed after me. They didn't take long to catch me up as I wasn't trying to get away and when they ran through the procedures in the car, they stated that I wasn't being charged with dangerous / careless driving, just excessive speed.

I have read & also heard about numerous press stories that have proven in some cases that Hand Held Laser devices are inaccurate on both cars & motorcycles (even Stone Walls if you go by the BBC's Inside Out Story).

The thing that i'm actually responding to is Stephen's comment on the CPS guidelines on capturing an accurate reading at over 300m. Is there any evidence of this that I could get a hold of, as I have received my summons to appear in August. [/b]

Marc918,

I can only tell you that it is the CPS guidelines, why it is this distance I do not know, I can only Imagine that it has something to do with fairness and common sense i would like to think, based on my experience, it would seem to be giving the intended victim a very slight fighting chance , and at that distance you stand no chance.

Marc If I could give you a piece of advise it would be dont try and use the overtaking one, especially that you where on a motorbike, I mean 40+mph over the actual speed limit to overtake on something that is three or four times less in width than in a car, so, you could have pis**d the overtake couldnt you have. I am back at work tomorrow I will speak with CPS and ask them why the no more than 300m rule and see what they say if you want.
Stephen

That would be great if you could, thanks Stephen. So you're saying that I shouldn't mention that it was an overtaking manoeuvre?

As I mentioned the police officer in the driving seat did state that the conditions were dry, visibility was good and that it was just excessive speed that I was being charged with. However after receiving my summons last friday, the witness statement of the officer seems to make out like I was being rather arrogant and facetious / jokey over the matter - One question from me asking whether I was facing a ban was turned into "I'm facing a ban now aren't i? I've only just got the thing and now i'll have to sell it!" I did mention that I had just bought the bike and that day was my first ride on the thing since buying it and that if I got banned, I would probably be selling it due to increased insurance costs etc, just not in that context.

They also left out that the officer proceeded to inform me about the inconsistencies related to hand-held devices and that I could challenge it if I wanted citing the LTI20:20 as an example. Again, I do not dispute that I broke the speed limit during the overtake, however getting convicted for a lesser speed may surely improve my chances of avoiding the ban.

Regards,

Marc918

MArc918,
Not forgot about your reply, only CPS have not replied to me I will reply as soon as I know unless anyone else can find out before me.
Stephen

At the greater distance, the likelihood of slip is much greater. At 400m when there is a car in close proximity.. I believe the reading is very questionable. If you're sure you were at the speed limit shortly before and shortly after the overtake, were it me, I'd concede a possible minor speed limit transgression during the actual manouevre based on safety groundsd (but NOT their speed!), but, if you are sure before and after due to dial checks, contend it firmly.

IANAL

Best to do Pepipoo.

Stephen and IG or any other

What is the procedure for targetting a motorcycle that is travelling toward the gun? Where would you be looking to aim the laser to get an accurate reading? What would be your opinion, or personal experience, regarding the accuracy of the reading you get from the front of a faired/unfaired motorcycle within and beyond the 300m?

The reason I ask is, as marc hasn't said he was doing that speed, I wonder if he was anywhere near 101mph and, as you are probably aware, the Home Office initially said that speed cameras were not type approved for use on motorcycles and then retracted the statement.

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Prepare to be Judged

Thanks Stephen, I hope they get back to you/us soon.

That's a good point R1NUT, the front of a faired motorcycle is not flat like the ideal targetting point of a flat numberplate on a car.

After doing some digging, I found that the specification for the Kustom pro-laser III is such that the beam has dispersed as much as 90cm over 300m, meaning that @ 400m, the beam will then be 1.2m wide. Now neither I or my bike are that wide at their widest point so as the speed was recorded during an overtake, there is a hightened chance of a reflection from the car I overtook which could have interferred with the reading causing it to be erronous.

I contacted a gentleman from Kustom's Technical development team and he was reluctant (to say the least) to give me a 100% degree of accuracy related to the pro-laser III. He just said that they ARE accurate, but like I say, never gave any failure rates. If he's so confident in the technology of his, can he not be proud enough to have a success rate to boast about?

Stephen,

Just wondered if you had heard anything regarding the CPS guidelines we talked about.

Regards,

Marc.