Safe Speed Forums

so a digital photo is fine if you are a scameraship, a traffic warden or a PC

however why is it not admissible for me or you?

above the Law and double standards anyone?

It is if you put it onto WORM media as soon as possible and label it and keep it safe and... whatever else you're meant to do. RedSpeed devices have a WORM drive in them.

Parking vultures operate under civil law so they are a completely different problem.

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Andrew.

Do they bring the worm drive into court then?

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

I should expect they would bring the media. Well, in theory...
In practice "We don't need proper evidence, it's digital, innit?".

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Andrew.

The House of Lords Science and Technology Committee
http://www.parliament.the-stationery-of ... st0501.htm
takes the view that the admissibility of a digital image should be considered on an individual basis.


I am not aware of any blanket ban along the lines you suggest but I am sure you will point me to the relevant legislation.

Sounds far more impressive to the dimwit magistrate if you call it WORM rather than CD-ROM

WORM = Write Once Read Many

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

I don't think I'm understanding this.

At my recent court appearance, I did indeed produce photographic evidence which had been acquired using a digital camera, but I had had the pictures printed on Kodak paper. Am I missing something?

From personal experience I can assure you that you are far more likely to encounter dimwits here than you are on the bench.

From a professional point of view - many years as a mental health professional - you may be interestd to know that the subconscious mind only promotes the use of insults in arguments when it realises that you don't have the information you need to make your point in any other way.

That would depend which county the bench was in!
There are none so dim as will not see, like in Wiltshire. "this is a court of law, it is not a place for legal argument" late on a friday afternoon as the magistraite had her shopping bag ready to escape.

Then there was devizes. We adjourned for a coffee break and the clerk came back in to tell us the magistraites were not returning. They had effectively run away!

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Thats similar the words I have to use on occasion.
The last one was to someone "defending" his speeding charge with the totally fictitious defence put forward by Pepipoo of demanding to have a copy of PACE brought along to the site of the offence so that you can read it. The police always refuse, because there is no such right and as far as I know there never has been.
This defendant took the view that Pepipoo were right and the CPS, court clerk, bench and 2 defence lawyers who were watching were all conspiring to hide the truth in order to get a conviction. When he started going over the same ground for the fourth time, we took the view that the leeway extended to those who represent themselves had run out. Hence my use of the "court of law not place for legal discussion" phrase.
Its not wholly accurate but defendants almost always take the hint.



happens occasionally. Someone may have been ill, had to leave to deal with a family emergency, found out that they know someone involved in the case, disqualified themselves for some reason (eg a colleague stood down from drink drive cases for 12 months or so after being hit and seriously injured by a drink driver), someone may have been needed to hear an urgent application (eg child protection warrant).
It could even have been a breakdown of the air con in the retiring room leading to a temperature of almost 40C - that one actually happened to me. We adjourned the case as we didn't think it was fair to decide a case when our minds were so occupied with how uncomfortable we were.

http://www.cumbriasafetycameras.org/library/Cal_Cert_A591IngsWestbound_0708.pdf

Since we are talking of the authenticity of digital images, what may I ask is Fisherman's view of this representation, on the Cumbria Safety Camera Partnership's website?

Compare it to this one which is displayed as last years certificate....
http://www.cumbriasafetycameras.org/library/Cal_Cert_A591IngsWestbound_0708.pdf

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Alan, did you mean to post the same link twice?

Naa, he's just like that! Bloody bikers!

Do you take a WORM drive into court if you wish to steer the proceedings?

I'll get my coat...

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Have used digital images in many cases both civil and criminal and have always been accepted. The Home Office produced some very good guidance on how to handle digital images/video/evidence to ensure it was admissable as evidence.

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

Could almost add that this is a "court of law not necessarily one of justice"...

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

In general those who win feel that justice has been done. Those who lose their case think the opposite.

And those of us who are mere observers? I perceive that justice is not done. The law may/may not be upheld, but justice hasn't been done.

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

Almost always make their judgement on hearsay provided by a biased source (ie the person who lost his case ), without having seen all the evidence, with no experience of judicial decision making, based on an incomplete knowledge (if indeed any knowledge at all) of court rules and the relevant law.

You state with certainty and authority that this chap "posed a totally fictious defence put forward by pepipoo, of demanding to have a copy of PACE brought along to the site", then you state "as far as I know there is no such right" which highlights that you are unsure and therefore triggers the element of doubt.

You also state:

"This defendant took the view that Pepipoo were right and the CPS, court clerk, bench and 2 defence lawyers who were watching were all conspiring to hide the truth in order to get a conviction. "

A fallacial argument known as the appeal 'to popularity', x, y & z all agree that they are right so they MUST be right. Odd, that you had all these people in the room yet you are still unsure as to whether Police have to provide a copy of PACE upon request.

Somewhat inconsistant when someone's licence is at stake don't you think?

At risk of appearing to be the "Fisherman Defence Fund", I have to point out that there is an inconsistency in:



Fisherman did not state "as far as I know there is no such right" - what was actually stated was :



Fisherman is quite clear that there is no such right in law now - the only "uncertainty" in the comment is whether or not there has ever been.

PACE came in during the mid 1980s (the Act is 1984 and came into force in 1986 IIRC) and like any other law there have been cases decided in the higher Courts which have developed and modified its application, and there are a series of Codes of Practice which have also been amended over the years, so it's quite possible that there might have been a period where this "right" was held to exist - although I too am not aware that it ever has been.

The Pepipoo suggestion is just plain wrong!