Safe Speed Forums

Vehicle construction and use regulations require a vehicle speedometer accuracy to be in the range of -0->+10%.

As for "middle lane hoggers"
Does that mean that I have to wait in the outside lane for the trucks to allow me room to get in-between them on the next lane in ?

Let me explain here....Junction 16 to junction 13, M1. Weekday at 0920(ish). The inside and middle lane are nose-to-tail, trucks, vans and the odd car driver. (distance between each truck at 50(ish) about 20 feet).
The outside lane is doing nearly 60....largely because people are trying to get into the inside lanes to get off....and cannot.....planning needs to be done about 2 junctions back from the one you intend to get off at...
So, I'll just bomb-along in the outside lane and shioft over as-and-when....nobody goes much over the limit, the local law are well-known for setting-up shop on the bridges....that's even if you can get to over 70....

Of course, later-on in the day the trucks get a bit less regular. Then you can travel in the outside two lanes with a bit of thought......the inside lane is something to avoid until you need to leave the m/way. The outside lane is used by those who travel at between 70-80....the next lane in is used by those who need to get somewhere a bit faster, so the middle lane is used by those at between 80-90....transferring to the outside lane when they get some room, then back to the middle lane when the outside lane slows again.
Most of my m/way travel is done by m/bike. I get scant thought from all other drivers, and trucks are by FAR the worse closely followed by buses and vans.
Who in their right mind would willingly put themselves inbetween two trucks, given their drivers well-known inability to travel with a safe distance between themselves and other traffic ?
Middle lane hogs....what other lane CAN you hog ?



I do little overtaking, on any road. Mainly because it just isn't possible at normal working hours. The go-to-work run is done at about 40mph, max. This is because the trucks are allowed to proceed at that speed on single carriageways, and the traffic the other way is doing much the same....nose-to-tail.

Actually, it's even more "liberal" than that... If one may quote from "Hansard"...


Apart from Lord Whitty being apparently as innumerate (or, to be charitable, badly reported - not actually very likely in Hansard) as the average denizen of the Palace of Westminster - I assume that the percentages he mentions are "+" rather than straight... We arrive at the following...

An indicated 30mph could be as low as 22.62mph (or 25mph using the EC figure)

... and 70mph indicated could actually be as low as 60.72mph (or 61.37mph EC).

So toddling along at a "perfectly within my rights" legal 70mph on the speedometer, holding up a queue of "lunatics" isn't either sensible or polite without knowing how accurate your instruments are... And I'd hazard a guess that there are very few, if any speedometers as accurate as even a cheap GPS. GPS has to be designed to be as accurate as possible, speedometers, paradoxically, have to be designed to be inaccurate!

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"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev

When you're in traffic then "keep left unless overtaking" is a good rule of thumb. But it's not the only thing that one needs to do not to be a skanky lane hog.

For example, if you're in L3 overtaking a long line of vehicles in L2, it's certainly not OK to overtake them all at 1mph more than them while an increasing number of drivers build up behind you. If you're overtaking, and someone comes up faster behind you, you should still pull in to a gap as soon as is reasonably possible. "But I was overtaking" is not a defence, and nor is "But I was doing the speed limit": being a tw@t is being a tw@t at any speed. Anyone who thinks that it's OK to do something at 70mph but not at 65mph is barking. That's never been what good driving was about and it never will be.

Give way to faster traffic as much as is reasonably possible, don't be a busybody and concern yourself with other people's speeds, and you'll be fine. If you get flashed from behind with any regularity then you are doing something wrong, and you need to improve your attitude/driving instead of obstinately blaming those who just want (and have every right) to get past you. All you have to do is stop looking for "legal ways" to block people and just get on with driving properly and considerately. You'll find yourself a lot less stressed if you're not constantly trying to start fights from nothing with other motorists. At the moment you're cutting your nose off to spite your face: putting yourself in danger, lengthening your journey times and increasing your stress levels, just to frustrate other people. It's not worth it, and only a very obnoxious individual would think otherwise.

I realise that the vast majority of us (possibly all but one) already know the above; I just stated it for those who seem to have trouble (intentionally or otherwise) figuring out how to be courteous to other road users on multi-lane roads. I suggest that those people try a few journeys without lane-hogging, try very hard not to get het up by people overtaking them (it doesn't affect the overtakee after all), and see how much easier it is that way. Oh, and no more flashing lights or offensive gestures either. Even for purely selfish reasons, it's worth stopping.

Perhaps we need a "stop lane-hogging" helpline; after all, I suspect that it's an addiction for some, and a thoroughly unhealthy one at that, both for them and society.

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Paul Smith: a legend.

"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)

Nice one bombus!

Jomukuk, just to reiterate, as you seem to also have fallen into the trap, staying in the middle lane whilst passing an endless stream of traffic in the left-hand lane is NOT being a MLM, and noone is suggesting otherwise. If there is not ample room to move left, then don't, but by the same merit, if there is, then do!

I suppose Technically if you enrage the motorist behind you by doing ANYTHING, whether or not his behaviour and ire is justified or not, then you are committing behaviour likely to lead to a breach of the peace, and as such, committing an offense!
See my previous post on Driving Without Consideration for Other Roadusers, as confirmed by In Gear here

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

No. the point I'm trying to make is that there is no middle lane. There are three (or more) lanes, with traffic proceeding along all of them. in many cases the traffic on the left hand lane/s will be travelling faster than on the right hand lane/s. Far too many people lose their rag on m/ways because the driver in front won't move over....the poor guy/gal bloody well can't move over in many cases, and when he/she starts to do so they get stopped by others undertaking...and on....and on....and on....

I've been lurking without posting for a little while - trying to give up the habit, you see - but I felt I had to applaud this little gem in Bombus's post. If it's OK with you, can I pinch it for my signature line?

[edit] oh - and this bit too:

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

Thanks both! I'm glad my ramblings occasionally make some sense.

Handy, of course it's OK. Thanks for asking.

Incidentally, I had the dubious pleasure of driving on the M4 this afternoon. Unbelievable, sickening amounts of lane-hogging, and some blatant, unambiguously deliberate blocking. I could go on for hours describing each incident. Really shockingly bad. I'm never going to drive on a motorway between 1100 and 2000 on a weekend again if I can possibly avoid it. I would prefer rush hour any time...there may be more people but at least a higher percentage know what they're doing.

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Paul Smith: a legend.

"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)

Of course there is a middle lane, it is the one between the leftmost lane and the rightmost lane!

I do believe it is law that other than under certain circumstances (left lane becoming an exit ramp, slow moving traffic, traffic on the right turning right (granted not for motorways) etc.) undertaking is forbidden. Now, given that we are not discussing the slow moving traffic situation, where individual lanes may move in isolation and certainly noone will be accused of being a MLM, if the left lane is moving faster than the middle (or right) lanes, in free flowing traffic, then those people being undertaken should clearly be in the left most lane, and were they to indicate a move there then I am sure the faster traffic would be more than willing to oblige in letting them occupy that lane and moving to the middle or right hand lane themselves.

Let me reiterate for those who are struggling:

You are not a MLM if you stay in the middle lane indefinitely to pass a queue of slower traffic in the left hand lane. Nor are you a MLM if the traffic conditions are such that all three lanes are saturated and individual lanes move faster or slower than others.

You are a MLM if you stay in the middle (or for that matter right hand) lane for longer than is necessary to pass traffic in the left hand (or middle) lane. There is absolutely no excusible reason in normal driving for being in any lane other than the left-most if you are not passing, about to pass, or have just passed, other traffic.

And like a lot of people you believe wrong.
I think the highway code is to blame for that. It says that you "should not" overtake on the left, which doesn't really make any sense. Also "should not" is not "must not" so doesn't refer to any law.

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Andrew.

Thats quite possible. It would be interesting to see how law-enforcers would view it in differing circumstances.

I certainly don't believe, personally, that undertaking is automatically any more dangerous than overtaking; as the overtaker, you should always be prepared that the overtakee may move over without awareness of your presence or warning, and all drivers on the roads should check their mirrors and blind-spot before changing lanes, whether they expect to find other traffic there or not. After I gained biking experience I certainly looked over my shoulder a lot more in a car than I ever did previously!

Quite possibly the most frustrating and annoying thing on the roads. Lastnight I was on the North Circular at about midnight...practically empty except for the one car in the inside lane, two in the middle lane, and two in the outside lane who you could be forgiven for thinking were travelling in convoy. None of them going faster than 45mph. And no amount of flashing of lights would convince any of them to move over.
I would have been held up for far less time on a single carriageway. It absolutely takes the piss.

Agreed. Promoting that kind of approach to driving would do far more to improve road safety, and make the whole scene so much more pleasant.

If we could have more of that, and less of the rules and penalties regime, things would be a great deal better.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

I remember bunching like that from my time in London as quite a popular pastime. I don't miss it.

It's good practice and common sense to stay in L1 and use the outer lanes to overtake. If you are overtaking a "convoy" in L1 - then best practice dictates you stay in the lane until you complete the overtake and then move back to L1 thereafter.



So if L1 is empty - you stay in L2?

Er.. Why? Most drivers out there do not have a problem if you are overtaking an L1 convoy as this ain't MLM behaviour whereas sticking to the L2 for zero reason and below speed limit is.

I know France is a different country - but there's definite logic/merit to their LAW that drivers must drive at the maximum speed limit in force when using the overtaking lanes.




I think you will find that a Sat Nav/GPS speedo is extremely accurate. Our speedos show needle at 70 mph. The Sat Naz says we are travelling at 67 mph. This three mph reading is the same on all our modern cars. Our old Classic vintages? The speedos on both Moggies under-read by 4 mph at low speed and 8 mph at 70 mph. The car's actually doing 62 mph per the GPS system. We have replaced speedos with cannibalised parts from "owners' club" and even bought up some parts when MG Rover went pear shaped and we got a one off opportunity to buy up stuff they'd had gathering dust in stock for donkeys' years. One of these was.. a new speedo for a Moggie and it still out by similar margins But we are told that this car is so old that many manufucturing rules don't apply to that serene old lady. She gives a "stately gentle ride" all the same and we do keep her in L1 as she's now valuable as a collector's dream.

My Triumph Stag ? Her speedo under-reads by 4mph low speeds and 5 mph at 70 mph upwards. :rolleyes: So - her speedo reads 75 mph and the GPS tells me she's in steady cruise mode at 70 mph

(My cars? My "harem." Wildy calls our cars "her toy boys" )



As said - no person has problems if you are overtaking something in L1. If you are just there to be "awkward" - then there is a problem regardless of whatever the speed limit on that road is. It's not using the road space properly and it creates congestion somewhere down the road behind you.

I call my COAST led driving style being considerate to other road users and COAST led driving does not ever mean "ignoring lolly or driving in such a way as to create a danger for other people". It helps reduce the risk/hazards and guides you to the safest speed for the prevailing road condition.




That's not what you said above

MLMs are those who stick in L2 at well below speed limit. It's plain inconsiderate to careless driving. Was behind one at 40 mph in Middle Lane. L1 drivers were not undertaking it. It created havoc on M6 the other day as it led to problems in L3 with everyone trying to overtake her. Nothing in front of her. No reason for it.

There is then a difference between genuinely overtaking and then returning to Lane after the overtake and simply sitting there for the sake of it.

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If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

I just don't understand it. Did nobody teach these idiots how to drive?
There's something very, very wrong with people when congestion regularly occurs on nearly empty dual carriageways/motorways.

Having said that, in a way it's probably for the best. The A406 is the most speed camera-infested road I've ever ridden.

So good - it warrants more applause

I just let the idiots pass me. I'd rather them be in front than behind me. After all - their licence if they get pinged at Shap after all.

I watch the road and drive according to the conditions with regard to others. Generally - I mind my own business and just deal defensively with the idiots.. diffusing their danger by using my COAST led skills as taught to me by the "master" - IG. (I admit any drive with him is like being on a ruddy driving test though. He notices everything )

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

Then the bunching is probably the cause of the KSI stat used to "justify" the forest!

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

No doubt. They're a bastard aswell, because the cameras are often hidden around bends or just after little tunnels.
I had to emergency brake a few times because you just appear on top of the cameras, and I refuse on principle as much as anything to adhere to a 40mph speed limit on what is an empty motorway in all but name. Hateful road.