Safe Speed Forums

There is, but AIUI you can still drive a normal car/caravan combination on a standard licence.

I'm sure we've discussed this on here before...

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

could someone please explain the logic behind that one for me? you need to sit another test to tow a small trailer but you can tow a caravan without a test?

im buggered if i can understand that one

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Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585

Ok, I found it. I still don't fully understand it, but hey.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Dr ... DG_4022547


I believe MAM effectively means "random number stamped on vehicle" and has nothing to do with the weight of the stuff you manage to cram in to the vehicle.

I don't know how heavy a caravan is or what random weight number they have stamped on them. Or are they not classed as trailers?

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Andrew.

Politics perhaps ? Some MPs feared the backlash, when a section of the motoring public still had the necessary to vote .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

[geek mode]

Right. Layman's guide to the new Cat. B licence and some definitions.

MAM - maximum authorised mass. (New name for gross vehicle weight). The TOTAL design mass of the vehicle and load. So a trailer with a MAM of 1.5tonne might weigh 300kg, so has a LOAD capacity of 1.2tonne. The MAM has nothing to do with the ACTUAL load on the trailer.

Train weight. Total MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle added together.

You can only tow a trailer with a MAM of up to 750kg on a new style cat. b licence. (basically single axle, unbraked trailers. Anything under 750kg MAM is not required to be fitted with a weight plate stating its maximum design load) Technically, even though the trailer may not actually WEIGH over 750kg unloaded or with a partial load, if its plated MAM is over 750kg you still can't tow it. Therefore if the 'van's MAM is less than 750kg you can tow it. It has nothing what so ever to do with the dimensions of the trailer.

The trailer CAN exceed 750kg so long as the train weight (total MAM of towing vehicle and trailer) does not exceed 3500kg AND the MAM of the trailer is less than the unladen weight (kurbside weight) of the towing vehicle. Finding combinations that actually fit this rule is virtually impossible - I think it works out that the trailer can't be more than about 900kg MAM.

The same rules apply to everyone when considering the towing capacity of the tractor vehicle i.e unless stated otherwise you can tow up to 50% of the kurbside weight of the vehicle if the trailer is unbraked or 85% if the trailer is braked.

[/geek mode]

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

does all that mean that you can tow a caravan on a B licence?

having said that, how many caravaners passed their test after the licence changes? most are coffin dodgers who cant manage the car, never mind with something hanging off the arse end of it

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Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585

If the 'van is under 750kg you can tow it. Like you said though, the new licence only affects people who are 28 (ish) or less.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

talk to the hand Sixy, talk to the hand

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Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

if you get me a walking stick for christmas, im gonna poke you in the eye with it

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Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585

You're on! (You're only 3 years older than me though, grandad!)

Besides, you've got a class 1, why do you need to worry about it?!

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Is it time to introduce US style "delay of 5 or more vehicles unlawful" rules and a camera to police it?

Here is an idea, you install those Truvelo inductive loops shortly after a layby. These will be able to tell how fast you are going and also how many cars are stuck behind you.

A quarter of a mile down the road you have a camera similar to a truvelo only with a wider angle lens. If the inductive loops are still registering cars then the camera takes a picture of your front numberplate and the huge queue you have caused. If the inductive loops have had a gap of, say, 10 seconds or more then the camera does not go off.

Sure it wont catch everyone, for example if someone leaves a stupidly long stopping distance, but it will get most.

I call this device the "Twatso"

And very quickly you'd catch every law abiding HGV driver and anyone pulling a trailer AT ALL on a SC road.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Well yes, it's only useful if you bring in that particular American law. I only mentioned the camera as you know that it would never get enforced otherwise.

I did also state that the thing should be installed after a layby. Give them a chance to let their queue past.

Of course the real solution to an SC road that is "plagued" by HGVs is to dual the damn thing, or at least parts of it, then my solution can concentrate on the likes of caravans and Rover 200 drivers.

only til october 27th. its getting too close for comfort

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Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585

the problem that we have which most other road users dont is the fact that we have limited driving times. our use of the road is essential, not leisure and we have a limited time to get the job done and get back to base. others do not have these restrictions. every time we pull in, its costing time and for what? to allow non essential road users to get where they are going quicker? then we get going only to pull back in to repeat the process (and lose more time) a couple of miles down the road

buses get priority, why dont we?

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Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585

Oh no, not the big 3 0 !??

Its all downhill from here...you're going to have to start wearing trousers that come up to your armpits and muttering to yourself about the youth of today...

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Bit below the belt.

We had more respect for our elders when I was younger. Damn kids don't know they're born half the time. Where's my cocoa?

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Prepare to be Judged

Not every car you are holding up is leisure. Thanks to the working time directive business travellers and (reps, engineers etc.) are also on restricted hours. We resent the caravanners and other "non essential" road users as much as you do. But how to solve it without infringing on civil liberties by restricting people's ability to travel.

One option would be to say it's ok for goods vehicles to hold everyone up but not ok for caravanners. That would work but would be perceived as being rather unfair.

Perhaps then a law stating that if you are driving at 10mph below the speed limit or under, in normal weather conditions, (moderate rain would be considered normal) then you are required to let people past. Then build laybys on straight sections and install a Twatso camera shortly afterwards. It would be a requirement that there is a quarter mile of straight road before the speed measurement takes place.

You guys who are restricted to 40mph could carry along as before since a quarter mile should be enough to get back to 40 after a corner. Gerald and Enid in their Rover 200 towing a horsebox at 20mph would have to pull over or get caught. You could optionally also install Twatsos before laybys that activate a sign instructing them to let people past. If I were writing the software for this I'd hook up an ANPR camera and link it to the DVLA database so that the sign could say, "oy, you, yes you in the green Rover 214Si reg ABC123P doing 23mph in a 60, move over in that layby and let the bloody huge queue you've created get past". Possibly with a big LED screen showing them the queue since they obviously don't use their mirrors.

I'd still like to see more duallies and passing places on HGV routes though.

You couldn't do that though. It might not be safe (unsecure / fragile load for example) to stick to the speed limit at all times.

I agree that the best solution all round is higher quality roads. You cannot expect commercial traffic to stop and pull over just to let Mr. Repmobile past.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.