Safe Speed Forums

which is fine if - AND ONLY IF - you are overtaking vehicles in the nearside lane; but if the nearside lane is clear, you should be in it. Speed is irrelevant in this regard - you could be doing half the speed limit in the middle lane if the nearside traffic is slower.

Unecessarily obstructing a lane - at whatever speed - is driving without due consideration.

OK ok, lets go back to basics here.

hjeg1 obviously believes that exceeding the speed limit is dangerous. The DfT themselves admitted that this isn't the case when they publised the statistics... 5% of KSIs are caused by exceeding the posted limit.

So tell me. Why is exceeding an arbitrary number dangerous? Illegal maybe, but that's not the question.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

hjeg1, if you believe that breaking the law by exceeding the speed limit is so wrong, why do you feel that it is acceptable to break the law by deliberately blocking the middle lane?

So you think your choice of lane should be dictated by the speed you're doing, rather than the traffic condtions in your vicinity?




By and large, the faster drivers are also the ones who seem to exhibit greater awareness of what's going on around them, and have better control over their vehicles. I lose count of the number of MLMs I see every day who can't seem to keep it between the lane markings, or who think MSM means "maneouvre, signal, mmmm, why's that other driver flashing their lights/sounding their horn at me?"



Ah, but in that case it was the context in which they applied the speed which matters, not that they were just doing 100...

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Chris

Oh, and just for clarification.

Contrary to popular belief, the lanes on a motorway are NOT slow / lorry lane, middle / cruising lane and fast lane.

They are L1 (normal driving) and 1, 2 or 3 OVERTAKING lanes. Thus, if you are NOT overtaking you should be in the normal driving lane, ie L1. (Obviously there are some exceptions at particular junctions / stretches where L1 is a filter lane for a junction etc)

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

That was me!! I am quite happy to confess to the relevant police authority but I really do not thing they would be bothered. I fact I could get into trouble for wasting there time!!



Highlighted to help you.

and the page

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewt ... c&start=80

yes I adimit it I drove 100 mph in germany, and as most people know it is perfectly legal to.

Just to note I don't believe I have drive that fast over here, contrary to what you may believe I, and many others who post here have respect for the law.

To note: despite the fact parts of the autobhan network are derestricted they still have a police presence on there. Why do you think that is hjeg1? The legal limit is not the only traffic law there is.

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Oct 11 Birmingham Half Marathon. I am running for the British Heart Foundation.
http://www.justgiving.com/Rob-Taylor

But you're obviously not understanding the point of me saying that then. I said that to get my 'defence' in first!




In your opinion!





I didn't say you were. But is it not a valid example?



What's that got to do with anything? Does taking an advanced motoring course let you break the law?



I'm not willfully obstructing traffic, I'm merely driving in the middle lane at the speed limit.





Hold on a moment, I thought I replied to this point of yours? I shall have to have another look at this thread to see what your reply, if any, was to my reply. Are you seriously telling me that the average modern car's speedo is way out on the actual speed? Or are you just clutching at straws?



I'm slowing the traffic down.



Now I'm sure that I replied to that point! Anyway, let me reply again: no-one put me in charge of teaching people a lesson; I'm merely driving in the middle lane at the speed limit. You're basically saying "let the police do the policing" and in response to that would you ignore someone being threatened in the street because it should be the police that do the policing?


PS: I'm not trying to teach you a lesson, but do write the words "no one" either as two words like that or with a hyphen in them like this: "no-one"!

Which is still wrong. Why aren't you in the left hand lane?

Well I would have said that motorways and roundabouts are completely different.





Ha ha, I was just talking about your prosecutions section as you're a long-standing member on here! It's not a big deal.



What, as in the entire public? All I can see is that you have an awful lot of people on here being prosecuted for speeding. You say that you're not generally a speeder and I'm completely happy to take your word for it, but clearly there are many, many other people on here who do speed.

But this is the point that I've being trying to get across to other people on here, that you can't moan at middle lane hoggers when you're breaking the speed limit. At very best, you're no better than them. I'm trying to get people to actually think about their actions in this situation.



(That "you're" was meant generally.)

I would have liked to as well, but you already came here with your prejudices as to who you'd find.




No. Answer the question.



When you could, and should, be in the left lane.



See my reply elsewhere to the effect that, yes, it is a fact that almost every speedo on the road will overread.



It's quite clear that you will never see the error of your ways, and will continue being a meddlesome busibody until the day you are off the roads for good. I hope that day comes before your attitude harms another road user.

I do wonder why you continue to post, given that noone but you thinks your driving is safe or acceptible, and you're certainly not taking on board any of the points people are making to you.

Of course you can, the same way you can moan about speeders. Two wrongs don't make a right, didn't your mummy ever tell you that? How about all the people here who don't speed who are complaining about MLMs, are they allowed?

Do you ever find speeders forcing you to do something on the road? Didn't think so, so what gives you the right?

I’ll address the more useful parts.


No he is not. Many a modern speedo over-read by a significant amount. I've driven many different cars and I use GPS.


Look at that allowable margin for error.









There are many, many drivers who don’t post on SS who also ‘speed’, take free-flowing motorways for example: are they all SS members? Drive at a GPS indicated 70 and see for yourself.

I have also never been done for speeding and have a clean licence (for 10 years now)

And perhaps to the nub of it:


If you drive on motorways then you will appreciate that exceeding the speed limit is now seen as socially acceptable behaviour because the speed limit is set unreasonably low.
The same cannot be said for MLMs and L3Ms. There is good reason for there being overtaking lanes, adherence maximises utilisation and flow as well as increasing overall viewability. Motorways are packed enough as it is, MLMs needlessly amplify the issue such that it becomes a problem.

I think Handy said it best: two 'wrongs' don’t make a right.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

I'm at a loss to understand where you arguement is bbased.

Are you saying that those who 'speed' have no right to complain about MLM because the fact that they are breaking the law negates their moral right? He without sin and all that?

I have no problem making the distinction between 'lane hoggers' and 'speeders'

Hogging the middle lane is selfish, displays a lack of awareness of ones surroundings, is dangerous, frustrates other road users and implies insufficient confidence or worse a 'vigilante' attitude. In short unacceptable driving.

Speeding means a technical infringement of the law.

I'd rather have a motorway full of speeders any day!

I'll just continue to drive the way I always do.
The inside lane is full of lorries, at 60.
If I move into a gap (assuming one is there) I'll never get out of it.
The outside lane is full of vehicles driving at 70+ (mostly) .
The chance of me occupying the inside lane at 60, dropping to 40 or less on a slope is nil.
So, it looks like I'm stuck in the middle lane, along with the inevitable lorries overtaking the other lorries.
Along with loads of other people doing the same....
There are times I look forward to rfid tagging and automatic prosecution for speeding......especially when I get some sh*t in a black merc flashing me to go faster in the pouring rain....when I'm already doing the maximum 70....and there's nowhere to go...and the outside lane traffic is doing 70 +++....

jomukuk, I'm sure I've told you before that it does not make you an MLM if you are passing traffic in L1, don't you understand?

Yes I know this but you've ignored the basic point - I mentioned it involved Jeremy Clarkson previously.





I should have put the word "speeding" before traffic there. By the way, if you want to look at apparently contradictory points in posts then I suggest you start with bombus.




To be fair, that is a pretty silly question.



Okay so the driver who is doing '90' (or '100' as mentioned by someone else on here) is still within a true 70 are they? And besides, are you seriously trying to tell me that the average modern car's speedo is out by anywhere near as much as that?








But, naturally, I would disagree with this.



I wouldn't agree, otherwise what is the point of variable speed limits?



Actually I effectively said that myself first, but I don't think it's sinking in yet. And anyway, does that mean that you accept that it's wrong to break the speed limit? If you do, it would be good if you could persuade some others on here of that.

Yes, that's it.



Whilst I obviously put a completely different weight on the two issues.

I would say that expecting people to get out of your way just because you think you're above the law and so should be able to drive at whatever speed you feel like is selfish. I really don't see how driving in the middle lane at the speed limit is dangerous. And I am aware of my surroundings.

If someone was being threatened in the street and you felt able to intervene, would that be a vigilante attitude to get involved?

He knows it all folks, but we've ignored the basic point: If Jeremy Clarkson doesn't say it, he doesn't believe it!



Of course he said it first! He also said all those things he repeated from other people's posts first. In fact, everything we say to him actually proves his own case for his unique brand of driving!

Speedo accuracy is pretty much irrelevant. The speedo doesn't measure speed. It measures rotations of the wheels. Knowing the circumference of the tyres each revolution takes the vehicle a certain distance. Distance over time = speed.
This is all well and good until your tires wear down. Then the circumference gets less, the distance travelled per rotation is less, and the speedo ends up displaying a number greater than the actual ground speed of the vehicle.

Put larger tires on ("'cos they iz well wikkid lukin' innit Barry m8") and the circumference (and distance travelled per rotation) is increased, so the speedo will show a lower speed than the vehicle is travelling at.

So it's all down to the tires. All vehicles have tires so all vehicles have inaccurate speedos.

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Andrew.