Safe Speed Forums

HE sums up the title of the thread.

Interesting to know there are definitely some drivers out there that drive with "malice aforethought" as if merely ignorant mlms were not bad enough.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

I love the fact that moron-in-chief hjeg1 can say:



Then say



and



and



Pot? Kettle? You couldn't make it up!

Those who don't want to read my long, sliced posts - scroll past now!


Ah, tu quoque!

I have answered your question before you even asked it. There is no real reason for it (unless the limit is set too low leading to issues of arousal); regardless, doing so isn't automatically borne out of selfishness (unlike joyriders and thrillseekers - who are akin to lanehoggers).


Really? More than drivers who are lazy, inattentive or antagonistic?
Care to back that up or are you basing your beliefs on wild guesses and blind prejudice?


You mean drivers like you? Isn't this the point?


Do you really not understand that traffic will becomes increasingly bunched up when not utilising all the lanes, so forcing the reduction of inter-vehicle gaps and other knock-on effects?


So you can't justify lane hogging, over and above the conclusion that doing so is lazy or antagonistic? Is this really your final answer?
What was your ignored question?


I'm not trying to misrepresent your position, but it does appear that you value rule adherence above good driving practices; this alone says so much about your attitude of how you act in a community using shared and finite resources.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

So now you're being arrogant! You think that I'm a moron except that you don't know me. Do you know what the word arrogant means?



Bombus clearly didn't know what the word arrogant means.





What's wrong with that? Bombus was wrong.





Again, what's wrong with that? Bombus was wrong. Bombus doesn't know me. I know me. Yes?







Pot? Kettle? Not at all.

Why did it take Bombus so very long to grasp such a simple concept?

You're trying to have a go at me but failing miserably.

Er, whatever. (I shall look that up at another point.)



So if there is no real reason for it, why are people who moan at middle-lane hoggers in the right?



In what way am I lazy? In what way am I inattentive? Is that not blind prejudice?

And why do you find it antagonistic for me to drive at the speed limit?



But hold on, what do you base your beliefs on? Blinding following whatever statistics suit you?



No, I mean drivers like the ones on here who moan at middle-lane hoggers. But anyway, in reality, as soon as the traffic starts to slow up due to congestion, people just move to whichever is the fastest lane.



So why don't the moaners on here just drive in the left-hand lane? Anyway, as I say above, any bunching will quickly sort itself out because people will move to other lanes. Besides, what about when the traffic is lighter? I think you're going to have to search again for a reason as to why it's socially unacceptable to drive in the middle lane at the speed limit.



I have never really tried to say that there was nothing wrong with it, simply that most people who moan at middle-lane hoggers are hypocrites. Is that really so hard to understand?



Why don't you look back at the relevant post? Why should I have to write it out again just because you carefully deleted it?



But I see driving at the speed limit to be a good driving practice.

Says the person who can't reply to the vast majority of my points. If I'm a dunce, you must be the biggest idiot around. By the way, your constant insults just show you up for the aggressive moron you are.



Eh, you mean that I can't affect cars in front of me? Anyway, care to respond to all the other things I've said...?



Just like everything else you come out with, this is just a load of rubbish. You're trying to suggest that I'm delaying people more than the speed limit which is ridiculous. Anyway, why is that you think you're above the law again?



And yet you simply can't reply to the vast majority of the things I've said. What a complete idiot you are. Oh, by the way, have you looked up the word arrogant yet?



The infantile points are all coming from you. How many dozens of insults have you thrown at me? Presumably you don't think that's infantile?




Oh dear, more pompous rubbish from you. You've found one point out of everything I've written which you can respond to (and even then the response is poor). What about everything else, bombus? Anyway, what about when the traffic's lighter? What's your excuse for moaning at middle-lane hoggers? I imagine I won't even get a response because you pathetically ignore anything you can't respond to. Oh, and why do you think you're above the law again?




Looked up the word arrogant yet? Anyway, how can I be impeding everyone when I'm driving at the speed limit? How am I impeding someone else who is driving at the speed limit?



Yes, that's right, time for you to start driving correctly.



More childish insults. Gosh, I'm so surprised. Anyway, that sentence is one of the most ridiculous so far. How on earth can you possibly know that they are decent and hardworking?



Collective irritation and misery only caused to the speeders (good!). It's time for you to apologise profusely for all your insults. Don't worry though, I won't hold my breath.



As I said before, I really don't know what forum you're talking about. No, really, I don't!!! So stop being arrogant and thinking that you know me when you don't.



And what genuine debate have you come out with?



I say once again, I really don't know what you're talking about. Perhaps you should be clearer?



And you are not adopting a provocative posting style?

And I mentioned speeders' club in response to something else - perhaps you shouldn't quote me out of context so that we can have a genuine debate? Anyway, what speed do you do on the motorway again?

Herein lies the biggest reason why you are so ridiculous. I do wonder if you are actually old enough to drive, because your reasoning is so incredibly puerile.

Two wrongs do not make a right. Being a hypocrite does not automatically make someone wrong, any more than not being a hypocrite makes someone automatically right!

Your ever changing stance has seemingly now evolved to admitting that middle-lane hogging is wrong, but you feel justified in doing it for no other reason than you think if anyone criticised you, you could find fault in them. Are you for real?

Well I’m not going to get into a post slicing match (for the sake of others reading).

The act of lane hogging is socially worse than exceeding the speed limit (on motorways anyway), supported by the fact that the majority of drivers exceed the speed limit yet comparatively very few persist with continued lane hogging, yet it is the lane hoggers only who are treated with contempt from theri fellow drivers (care to tell us when the last high-ish profile debate of motorway ‘speeders’ occurred?).
Given the setting of the motorway speed limit, exceeding it isn't a problem. Given the congestion (let alone frustration) lane hogging causes, it is a real problem. Thus my position is far from hypocritical.

Your posts contain several more examples of tu quoque (asking the same questions asked of you but without without yourself answering them - an act of diversion), which isn’t surprising given how antagonistic you clearly are.....


For all your posts, you have so far confirmed there is no justification for lane hogging and, more significantly, you cannot rebut the argument given regarding congestion (actually you indirectly accepted it); well you did say ‘well why don’t you use the left lanes?’ if you can’t see the problems associated with that then all is lost on you.
This is supported by your final words ‘But I see driving at the speed limit to be a good driving practice.”

_________________
Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

But in what way is being a hypocrite right then? People are still being hypocrites, and that itself is what I have a problem with.



What 'random' phrases have I repeated? Anyway, you are being a complete hypocrite here, because it was you (that's right, you) that started off this repeating business. Don't give it if you can't take it.



Oh, how pathetic of you Robin!!!!!



Not at all. You're just making that up. Robin, why do you make things up? I haven't said or implied at any point that it has a vital bearing on this subject. Why say that I have? I also don't believe that it has a vital bearing on any other.

Anyway, you're obviously just upset because I have been proved right with your own link!!!

Why can't you just be humble and accept that you're wrong instead of making up things in a desperate attempt to deflect the blow?



And that's true.



So what! This way, if anything, gives them more room to do so.

And normal conventions include not breaking the speed limit.



Oh dear, in what specific way do you think you have "outwitted" me? Care to give any examples, or are you just making it up? Anyway, where have I repeatedly said to someone that they are wrong, or have lost? Can you come up with any examples?



At my "chosen" speed?! You mean the speed limit rather than above? Well I don't see myself as being above the law. Anyway, I haven't changed my standpoint. I drive in the middle lane for both reasons. Amazing! And even if I had changed my standpoint, how is that "repeatedly"?



Do you really believe that accident statistics are scientific facts? Really? How come some people thing that only 4% of crashes are down to speed whereas others think that as much as 33% are down to speed?

As for the accuracy of GPS, I ask again: if this is such a big deal, why is it not regularly reported in the mainstream media? (And don't come out with your prejudices this time.)

The other issue here is the fact that you mis-read that dictionary link. With that in mind, how do I know that you aren't also mis-reading your GPS? Or your car speedo for that matter?



Well in this case derision was perfectly acceptable.



And as I think I asked before, how many speeders have been featured on PCA in ratio to the middle-lane hoggers. Oh by the way, I've never said that there was nothing wrong with middle-lane hogging, just that speeders who criticise are hypocrites. It's a very simple point, but amazingly one in which people on here just don't seem able to grasp.

So we come back to the fact that you know its wrong but do it anyway, simply because you perceive others are wrong in some of the other things they do.

You're adding nothing to road safety, you're making things worse.

What about those who criticise MLMs and don't themselves speed?

I have never said they do!!!



I have never said it does!!!



Oh for goodness sake, you are so slow! I have never said that middle-lane hogging is right! (And my stance isn't "ever-changing" either, it's just that you must be jumping to conclusions about what I think.)



It's the weight that I put on the two issues, Robin. Driving in the middle lane at the speed limit might be technically wrong, but it's not dangerous like significantly breaking the speed limit. (And before you say anything, yes, I know that you think the opposite.)

Robin, you're doing the same thing that you did before, which is to ignore the vast majority (if not everything) that I say, and then say "such as" when I mention the fact.

I shall respond to the points in this post when you respond to all of mine.

Regardless of what you think speeders do to the overall safety on the roads, your disobedience of normal driving conventions certainly does not improve it, and you know it to be wrong, so why continue to do it?

I do not need to reply to every single one of your points in this case, because we are, at last, making progress! You admit that middle lane hogging is wrong, we're just at an impasse since you feel you're justified in doing something wrong just because others do other things wrong.

We can, however, weed out one glaring error regarding your understanding of the accident stats. The higher figure contained in the report pertains to a causal factor of driving in excess of the appropriate speed for the conditions, the lower figure to those where the speed was in excess of the limit. Excessive speed is not always in excess of the limit, nor is speed in excess of the limit always excessive.

Do you see?

I disagree, I have only contempt for drivers who significantly exceed the speed limit. As for a debate, speeding generally is mentioned loads. In fact, on one of the other threads on here (which I haven't really looked at) there is a story about so-called do-gooders wanting the speed limit enforced.



But you haven't responded to my points about this 'congestion' being caused! As for frustration, tough! Don't break the speed limit and it's unlikely you will get frustrated. This is borne out by the fact that only a tiny number of people who complain about middle-lane hoggers don't speed.



Well come out with a specifc example and I will try and answer.



And how about making that same criticism of bombus?



Other than the justifications I have actually come out with, but nevermind...



I responded to this issue about congestion but you've pretty much just ignored it.



You idiot, it is good practice! (Assuming, of course, that weather conditions etc are okay)

So what exactly is your point here?

You’ve fallen for one of the traps perpetrated by those who depend on speed enforcement for a living.

It depends on how you define ‘speed’. It is a know fact that only 5% of all crashes have one or more drivers exceeding the speed limit as a cause or contributing factor as found by professional accident investigators (DFT transstats 612594 - for 2005).
Prior to this, the 33% figure came from the camera partnerships who used a very loose definition of the term ‘speeding’, specifically a combination of ‘exceeding the speed limit’ and ‘going too fast for the conditions but within the limit’ (conditions vary of course). Regardless, the quoted transstats report put the sum figure at 15%. The SCPs no longer use their 1/3 figure – where they got that from no-one knows.

_________________
Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Two wrongs....



Oh dear!

It's not worth trying to have a debate with a petulant child, not because the petulant child can outwit you, but because you'll never, ever get anywhere with the child, who will either refuse or be unable to understand you.

Similarly, it's not worth the candle with this deranged, lying moron. He mysteriously doesn't understand anything which would undermine his stated position, a glaring example being that MLMs also slow down traffic behind them which is going slower than them. He knows that as soon as he acknowledges that, he'll have to admit that his lane-hogging is not for altruistic reasons, but for other, less noble reasons. He doesn't want to give up lane-hogging because he gets too much of a kick out of it, so he just pretends not to understand the point. Pathetic but predictable. I'd have more respect for him if he said "I lane-hog because I like to control other people, especially when they don't want me to".

Tempting though it is to correct his cretinous, antagonistic assertions, it's completely futile. All he does is to repeat the same discredited crap time and time again. He hasn't made a single point of any worth whatsoever. Just as I try my best to avoid sharing the roads with morons, I also like to avoid dialogue with them as much as possible. Therefore this post endeth my involvement with this particular specimen. That won't stop him saying that it's because I can't answer his points, even though I've specifically refuted that above. As I say, you can't get anywhere with him, because he deliberately doesn't listen. He'd much rather make the same points again and again, so that you have to correct them again and again. The less the debate advances, the less incredibly stupid he looks.

Does he think that the police want his "services" as an MLM? What about the fellow members of the public? If they don't want it, why does he do it? Does he think he knows better than them? Why can't he drive how he would on an unrestricted autobahn? What difference would it actually (not hypothetically) make to him? I fervently hope that one day soon he is held up by one or more fellow morons further on, and as a result, he loses his job, or something else bad happens to him. That way he might just realise that he should stop doing things to other people that he doesn't like having done to him. You know, the kind of thing that most of us realise in the first year or so of primary school. Granted, it'll probably need to happen a few times for him to grasp it, but in the end he might just get there.

Barring you-know-who, he's the most obnoxious, obtuse, idiotic, wrong, irritating, self-righteous, unhelpful, control-obsessed person that I've ever dealt with on a forum, and that's saying something. He's also made the most ludicrous statement that I can remember reading on a forum. Apparently someone who makes progress, without affecting anyone else (because we're dealing with reality and not hypothetical accidents here), is more arrogant than someone who constantly and knowingly blocks other people. "I'm blocking you against your will because I know what's good for you more than you do." According to him, the blocked and not the blocker is the arrogant person there. Warped logic from a warped mind (I wouldn't like to speculate just how and why it's so warped).

He really should have taken the hint the third time or so that his application to join the police was rejected. And I'm so very, very thankful that it was. Looks like he couldn't even make it as a PCSO or HATO. Again, I'm extremely thankful, as I'm sure everyone else is. I don't know whether it was the application form itself, the medical checks, or the interview (although I can speculate); all I know, and all I care about, is that he's not in authority, despite the fact that he acts as though he is. Now he's just got to get rid of the delusion that he's in charge, and he might just leave people to their own devices.

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Paul Smith: a legend.

"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)

I was talking about high-ish profile debates, like the one we had on the radio on the issue of lane hogging, not forum threads!

What was your point about congestion being caused? Was it about others using the left lanes? I thought I had addressed that one.

As for frustration: an unnecessarily low limit is a cause of frustration, hence why so many (motorway) drivers choose to exceed it and why those deliberately acting as a rolling road block causes it.

Some examples of tu quoque:
Care to back that up or are you basing your beliefs on wild guesses and blind prejudice?
“But hold on, what do you base your beliefs on? Blinding following whatever statistics suit you?”

Causing needless congestion is socially unacceptable; if you disagree then I would be curious to know why...Now that doesn’t really address my point does it? To remind you: I’m talking about minimising congestion by utilising all lanes.
“But what's stopping other drivers from using the left-hand lane if the drivers in the middle lane are doing the speed limit?”

Do you really not understand that traffic will becomes increasingly bunched up when not utilising all the lanes, so forcing the reduction of inter-vehicle gaps and other knock-on effects?
“So why don't the moaners on here just drive in the left-hand lane?”

So you can't justify lane hogging, over and above the conclusion that doing so is lazy or antagonistic? Is this really your final answer?
"I have never really tried to say that there was nothing wrong with it, simply that most people who moan at middle-lane hoggers are hypocrites. Is that really so hard to understand?"

That’s because you simply cannot justify it, except for reasons of selfishness
“But what reason is there for people to break the speed limit apart from their own selfishness?”

Please do repeat the justifications you gave for lane-hogging. Remember you also claimed that people moaned at you when you replied to as many posts as you can, then when I pushed you on it you simply replied “Well nevermind”; given that I'm afraid you'll have to show proof.

You are antagonising Bombus, as you are others (just as people do with their lane-hogging).........

Do you really want to call a forum administrator an ‘idiot’?


A message to everyone: please refrain from ad hominem

A message to "everyone"!!! Who are you trying to kid?! That was blatantly aimed at me. As if bombus will take any notice. (will come back to the rest soon)